Bush?
Offline I for one think Bush is by far the worse president this country has had thus far. He has ties with economic scandals such as Enron and Kenneth Lay. And not to mention he helped set up tax shelters in the caymans and other tropical islands which let the multi-millionaires of Enron and other companies avoid paying taxes. infact, they didnt pay taxes in 4 out of their last 5 years at Enron.
and in the process he has not only put this country lower in debt then it has ever been in history, but also screwed the middle and lower class out of money that is rightfully theirs.
EXAMPLE: The Estate Tax, which Bush got rid of, which said that in order to inherit a parents money and land and whatnot the benefactor must pay the government a cetain percentage, now, this may be bad for lower class farmers who do not have alot of money, and may have to sell the farm in order to pay the tax.
(heres the kicker) THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY RECORD OF SOMEONE HAVING TO SELL THE FARM IN ORDER TO PAY THE STATE TAX!
now, lets look at this from the other side of the spectrum: the upper class (who would have to pay much much more than the lower class farmer, which in turn would have fueled the economy) now dont have to pay anything, thus trickling even more money into their pockets.
now, if this isnt a bad president, i dont know what is.
Especially, when even if waht he says is true, a much easier way to fix the problem would be to put an inheritance floor before you have to pay taxes on it(if one does not already exist)
While I'm not quite as down on Bush as most liberals I know(and quite a few conservatives), I certainly don't like his policies, especially his stance on gay marriage, abortion, taxation, distribution of wealth, and religion.
-There is no sin save faith
I disagree with...mostly all of what he says, but what really pisses me off most (that I'm thinking of right now..) is how he's handling the whole Iran situation. I don't understand how we can forbid them from having nuclear technology, but not really care when our friends have it. I know we say it's for protection, but why can't Iran protect itself too then?
If you really want to see how stupid and evil bush is just down the movie "Loose Change" its the 9/11 conspiracy movie.
Sadly to say but Bush is the typical american though. He thinks just because he is american he can bully people around and use his power to do what ever he wants. Its really sad that he will do what ever it takes to get his way. Bush so far has done nothing but make america look worse than it already did. The US is at an all time low for how other countries look at us. Not only that but because of Bush Tony Blair is going to be kicked out of office.
I can't fucking stand bush. For the exact reasons Bryan listed and Sprinklesss listed.
Meh, politics isn't my specialty though, i don't pay much attention to it because I don't fully understand it all yet.
"To build my own religion. No Gods. No Laws"-Otep
www.myspace.com/xxfailurexbyxdesignxx
Yea bush is like a highschool jock someone just needs to kick his ass to put him in place. To bad it wont be the UN lol.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein
Bryan
Ha! yes.
I don't know. I remember sitting there on vacation watching the news about the recent "terrorist" attack that was to take place (the airplane incident with peroxide based explosives). The guy from UK (i could have the place wrong) sat there going "I called Bush numerous times and the guy just wouldn't answer or respond!" so he went and did something about it.
Bush does make himself look very dumb many many times in the eyes of the news. The one time he made fun of a reporter for wearing sunglasses in side during a confrence, it turned out that the reported was going blind and had very sensitive eyes and needed to wear the glasses. Also not to long ago a report asked him "what did the 9/11 attacks have to do with the US invading Iraq?" Bush's response was...and i quote "nothing". A minute or so after Bush caught what he said Bush tried to turn around the question and started making fun of the reporters outfit. He is such a dumbass.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein
Bryan
Man, his financial and economic gimmics are the least of our problems. What we need to worry about is getting the U.S. back into the Kyoto Pact, out of the Iraq, getting arbiters and peacekeepers into Israel and Jordan before they destroy 28 years of progress, and finally allowing gay marriage.
http://drunkendelight.com/view.php?id=2347
That's funny. He tries to escape reporters and he can't get out of the room.
I'm trying to find this video right now of this guy dissing Bush on air and they get into a fight. I can't remember where I saw it and I can't find it. it's hilarious.
[quote=Bryan T]If you really want to see how stupid and evil bush is just down the movie "Loose Change" its the 9/11 conspiracy movie.[/quote]
Oh, and I'm gonna say what I've been saying since I saw that movie.
That movie is rubbish.
I've seen the wreckage at the Pentagon, and I've spoken to people (in person) who saw the plane fly into the Pentagon. It was Al Queda, and the U.S. has assloads of evidence of this. If you really want to make a big fuss out of 9/11, question why nobody acted when we were warned a whole year in advance.
I don't blame Bush for our nation's problems. He's only one man, even if a man unsuited for his office. We very rarely ever have a good or memorable president, and those who are good get swamped with bad press or assasinated. One man cannot destroy a democratic nation. It takes the support of the majority to screw things up.
GrapeScentedGuru....Clinton left office with America in a 2 trillion dollar surplus Bush now has us in a 7 trillion dollar deficit. The worst part about it is that China is actually right now giving us the most money to pay off of our debt, through bonds that is.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein
Bryan
[quote]"what did the 9/11 attacks have to do with the US invading Iraq?" Bush's response was...and i quote "nothing".[/quote]
That's because there was nothing to do with 9/11. The Bush Administration never connected the two, but a lot of people misconcepted their intentions. They wanted to remove Sadaam and create a new peaceful democratic nation (One down so far. Don't see the other coming around too soon.)
Also, it's sort of characteristic for Republicans to create defecit, even though they oppose it and Democrats love it. The thing is, Republicans hate taxes, but love national defense. So when they upgrade the ol' ND, they spend without taxing, and create defecit.
I'd type more, but my sister just arrived from England.
Its nice to here from another teen who knows politics. Anyway the war on terrorism is being gone about very wrong. Just like when the US was at war with GB for our independce the US changed the way war was fought. What Bush didnt realize is that we need to change the way we fight war to end this thing. We have to put down the "morals" of war and just start taking out city blocks in order to end this war. I have family in Iraq and i dont care what they do as long as they come back safe. I dont support the war but i do support our troups. Bush is a dumbfuck for going into war without an exit plan. Weapons of Mass Destruction...the only ones were going to find in Iraq are ones with US written all over them. Bush as president is like a prejudes redneck with a gun license it just doesnt make sense. But we only have Americas ignorance to blame for that one i guess.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein
Bryan
Google.com
Type in FAILURE. Guess who comes up? Dubya does.
lol type in French millitary victories and hit "im feeling lucky"
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein
Bryan
Ha the first time i did the FAILURE one a pro-bush teacher was behind me and I went "heyyy! look at this!" and she fucking FREAKED on me. It was hilarious
One of my teachers tried to tell me it is "unamerican" to not say the pledge during school. Ok first off i was in highschol i mean come on grow up and then the moron tried to give me a detention for it. I went on a 20 minute rant on her ass it was great. It was in the library to which was awesome because most of the library was applauding me at the end of it.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein
Bryan
[quote=Bryan T]One of my teachers tried to tell me it is "unamerican" to not say the pledge during school. Ok first off i was in highschol i mean come on grow up and then the moron tried to give me a detention for it. I went on a 20 minute rant on her ass it was great. It was in the library to which was awesome because most of the library was applauding me at the end of it.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein
Bryan
[/quote]
I NEVER stand up and say the pledge during school. In 5th grade I was told I had to stand in the hallway during the pledge if I wasn't to stand up. And last year (freshman year)The health teacher had a fit about it and also said it was unamerican and disrespectful to the troops in Iraq. I got kicked out for the day because I went off on her and said "Excuse me but not only do i not like the line 'One nation under God' but I don't believe I have to stand up and say a few lines to a flag to show our country and our troops my respect." and she went "You're the rudest person I've ever met. I don't believe you have any respect for our people who out there dying."
and the argument went on and on until i got kicked out.
"To build my own religion. No Gods. No Laws"-Otep
www.myspace.com/xxfailurexbyxdesignxx
People need to realize that there beliefs are not everyone else's beliefs.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein
Bryan
My major disappointment with bush is his veto on the bill to increase stem cell funding. Judeo-Christian beliefs have absolutely no base in science (who'd have guessed?) and are in serious need of a wake up call. Bush obviously does not care about our dying citizens. Stem cells could save hundreds of thousands of lives with just a little bit of funding. Why would we need stem cells when pharmaceutical companies can keep selling pain killers to dope down those who need a cure? I think its absolutely irresponsible to slow down science in the name of a religion that many people do not believe in. Since when has bush been a certified scientist? Imagine a stunt for the next congressional election where hes wearing a lab coat and saying hes trying to save peoples lives (kind of like bush in his top gun uniform.)
somewhat unrelated but worth mentioning:
http://www.au.org/site/News2?abbr=pr&page=NewsArticle&id=8515
There is a lot of things Bush has overlooked to keep his image going. Pretty much anything usefull to the American people is not worth doing.
That is a very interesting article by the way. If that law does get passed that means that schools could possible force kids into saying the pledge no matter what there religious beliefs.
The only good i can see out of it is teaching religion in a public school. Dont get me wrong i know this sounds wierd but in the words of on of my friends "The bible is an English teachers wet dream". If a teacher could teach the bible as a story it would be great in the sense that it has amazing symbolisms in it and it would also enlighten kids to realize how stupid religion is.
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
Albert Einstein
Bryan
I agree.. I actually, to be honest, plan to read the entire bible soon.
Mainly to back me up and know more in debates.
But also just for the story itself.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but they found a way to do stem cell research with out harming anything? If I heard correctly, then I don't see why the hell it should be outlawed no matter what religion the jackass believes in. Hell, it could save my friend.
i love how well my topic has done. all in the last day too. its nice to see that other people share my views and pay attention to politics as well. i agree with everything that has been said. and as for that school thing, i think thats complete crap, they cant force you to be "patriotic" in school like that. i would give them so much hell about that. but then again, we're minors, and you cant speak your mind if you're a minor. hell, you can barely speak your mind when you're an adult.
[quote=Cody]i love how well my topic has done. all in the last day too. its nice to see that other people share my views and pay attention to politics as well. i agree with everything that has been said. and as for that school thing, i think thats complete crap, they cant force you to be "patriotic" in school like that. i would give them so much hell about that. but then again, we're minors, and you cant speak your mind if you're a minor. hell, you can barely speak your mind when you're an adult.[/quote]
See, that's where you are wrong. You CAN speak your mind when you're a minor.
What are we all doing right now :-)
Not to mention, she never said a thing to me again about standing for the pledge :-)
Funny as that is, it really says nothing. Again, while I'm not a fan of Bush(and that's putting it lightly) sacrificing the intellectual high ground is not worth a cheap shot(in my opinion)
-There is no sin save faith
I understand you exactly. Being at a private school, I don't even technically have such rights. Luckily, my school is liberal enough that detention is about all I get, and only then if the teachers are in a bad mood. I refuse to even stand for the pledge every time, because I don't believe in pledges. They do not leave room for changes in policies. I would make a pledge to certain ideals of America, but not America in general. Secondly, the 'Under God' part really bugs me, but I think that doesn't fit in with this topic at all, and this forum has deviated enough already.
-There is no sin save faith
It's just plain wrong to restrict human progress because of your own squeamish, illogical beliefs. I hate when poliicians make statements they really aren't justified to make, for example, scientific statements, or ones which have nothing to do with what they specialize in.
-There is no sin save faith
Actually cody you can! Technicly you as a minor, i believe highschool, you are bound under the constitiution. So legaly if you have enough brain compasity to make your own choices you have the right to speak under the constitution. You have all the rights as the constitition allows you. So go ahead and speak your mind. Just keep in mind that in a school teachers and other "parentel figures" legaly are your guardian and can act accordingly. But you still have the right to speak your mind. If someone tells you otherwise tell them to look at the constitution and if they say your a minor ask them were it says that a minor can not speak his mind.
true. but i apparently get punished for speaking my mind.
got into an argument with my mother on monday over the last day of summer. she wanted me to go to grandparents, i didnt want to, we argued. she actually threatened me with military school, because i was being "disrespectful" and now im grounded for two weeks. so, yes. i understand that i can speak my mind, but where i live, that gets you punished. and i speak my mind alot.
[quote=Cody]true. but i apparently get punished for speaking my mind.
got into an argument with my mother on monday over the last day of summer. she wanted me to go to grandparents, i didnt want to, we argued. she actually threatened me with military school, because i was being "disrespectful" and now im grounded for two weeks. so, yes. i understand that i can speak my mind, but where i live, that gets you punished. and i speak my mind alot.[/quote]
Well that's kind of a different situation if you ask me. There I can understand your mothers reasoning. I'm sure if you aproached it really calm, you might have different results depending on what your mom's like. But when it comes down to that, either way, parents rule that decision. Which sucks ass I must agree.
See now thats were its diffrent. When speaking to someone who has the power to punish you its a diffrent game. Sometimes you have to drop your morals and do some stuff to get what you want. But if you parents are going to send you to military school over going to your grandparents house thats pretty bad. Sorry about that one i dont know what to tell you, other than run away and join the circus(its actually quite nice here).
Ok if you actually saw that movie you wouldnt have just said that. The evidence is well on the side of the opposing. There was actually a documentry on the history channel yesterday with the people who built the towers and they all said the same thing "the building should not have fallen under the circumstances". How can you sit that and debate this with me? the evidence is overwelming. The US government has never once answered the question brought by that video. A plane did hit but look up the size of a boeing 747 and than look up the size of one side of the twin towers do the math. Than look into how only 3 plans in the whole history of the world have never left debry in a plane crash...all on 9/11? yea ok dont come here and tell me that the evidence is wrong when there is no way you can prove it otherwise.
As to bush yes one man, when given the right amount of power, does have the power to destroy a whole nation. Clinton left office with a $2 trillion surplus in funds but some how bush how taken that and spend an extra $7 trillion in his 2 terms as president. Honestly now what kind of idiot goes into war without an exit stratigy. He has had 3 maybe 4 good chances to leave already and has not. Bush is a fucking moron! yea we support the UN but dont listen to them and lose our good allies, than we screw over the rest of our other ones. How can you blindly sit by there and say that bush is not to blame? Watch the news! Its ignorant people like you that got bush elected.
Wow, you're right. Like how the buildings shouldn't have fallen down. Because engine oil can't melt that steel right? Oh wait, I forgot that we have fucking physics. Materials under stress (like stress from being hit by a fucking hundred ton iron bird) decreases durability.
And if the government answered every fucking conspiracy theory, it would have time to address actual issues.
'I'm sorry Ms.Smith, we can't focus on increasing welfare support for your fatherless children because some college kids made a video about how we flew a plane into one of our most lucrative economics centers. We'll be with you as soon as we counter every single thing on the internet.'
Never left debris? Are you kidding? Are you serious? Were you there? Okay, let me just clarrify something for you. Those pictures were taken by journalists. Journalists are not federal employees. That makes them civilians. If a national security building was just bombed, would you let anyone who wasn't in your roster go snooping around? Fuck no! The reporters probably got there after they cleared the debris in order to evacuate injured workers. What, you think they'd just stand around gawking at shrapnel? Oh, by the way, do you know how flimsy aeroplane metal is? Very. It has to be, otherwise it'd snap in air, or simply be too heavy to lift off. So if there's a bunch of metal, and if that metal is light and around an explosion, what can you see it doing? Does it drop like a fucking rock where it hit, or does it fly away from the detonation point in accordance with the laws of physics?
I dare you to produce one piece of credible evidence (meaning someone out of college who didn't make their documentary on their iMac) that says there was no debris. If a detective pulls a knife from a corpses back, does that mean they were never stabbed?
As for leaving Iraq, it's not that simple. Yes, I'd like to see US occupation end as much as the next guy, but the war has opened such a big can of worms that it can't be done without massive risk of a new civil war conflict. Hit and run was Bush Sr.'s strategy, and look where that got us (nowhere).
Lose our good allies? Listen buddy, the US isn't the only country fucking up. Britian, Japan, Germany, France, Israel? Remember them? All still US allies. All very much stationed in the Middle East. All very much in favor (unfortunately) of the Bush Admin's decisions.
And as for sitting here and not saying Bush is to blame, well let me just clarrify something for you. A President cannot declare war without the consent of Congress. That means a majority wanted war, and war they got. More than they bargained for, but war nonetheless.
Oh, and one more question. If a government was willing, nay, capable of destroying 3000+ people in one morning, why would you and the dumbasses behind Loose Change still be alive? Nobody would miss you or see you on TV. You'd be just another face on a milk carton, another hinderance removed.
There is no logic behind a country destroying its own civilians and economic potency just to declare war on a derelict part of the world. If they're not willing to nuke Sadaam, they're not willing to fly a plane into a skyscraper of their own shit.
Don't call me fucking ignorant, you sheep-minded poor excuse for a free-thinker. How can you call yourself that for being brainwashed by a fucking homemade college movie? The only thing worse than Bush for a president is you for a critic.
Ok first off...A college student may have made that video but if you actually did watch it everything he said was backed up by not only demolition experts and the people who built the buildings but also by people in boeing and scientists. If you actually pay attention to what it says none of it makes sense.
9/11 was a big deal dont you think? I would think that the government should answer a few questions about this big of a deal. It seems that everytime an answer comes up for this a person gets fired or after a week or so refuses to talk to anyone.
How do you explain that they only found 1 out of 4 blackboxes in the 2 plains that hit the towers? The blackbox in any plain can stand heat up to 5000 degree's. Also as the documentory states the building only got to about 2000 degrees the beams in the buildings should of been able to withstand temputers of over 3000 degrees. Also the fuel would of never had enough oxygen to explode let alone do as much damage as they said.
As for the debris go ahead and look at the video's of the plain crashes. If you look and read the captians most of the were filmed by tourests who happen to be right there. They have pictures of the buildings after the plains hit...there is no plain visable. In tower 2 the plain hit the corner of the builing. Now are you honestly going to tell me that a boeing 747 with a wing span of over 200 feet can hit the corner of a builing and there would not be any part of that plain hanging off of the building? Even with all of the smoke and fire there you would of been able to see some part of the plain.
Want my evidence on the debris? How come the side of the pentagon that got hit only had a 16x16 ft whole that was in the building. Dont you think a giant plain would make a bigger whole. Now lets say a plain did hit it than were are the wings? Also how come the grass of were the plain hit is perfectly fine? How do you explain that one?
I do agree that leaving Iraq is not simple but its there problem the US should not have to worrie about every other country just because we want there oil.
Ok first off if you pay any attention to how Bush got into Iraq you would no he started off by going around congress. The first 2 years we were there he did have to answer to anyone about sending troups. Never once was congress given a declaratoin of war for the "war on terrorism".
As for our allies you do realize that France is one of the countries heading the anit-american rally? They are not allies with us and along with them germany and isreal do not support us. Are you serious Japan? They dont have an army the closest they have to an army is a national police. Also there only our allies because we give them "nuclear protection" there not in iraq they dont have an army to send to iraq anyway.
And the government can do what ever they want under the "patriot act". Incase you didnt know under this act the government has the right to take you to an undesclosed place for up to 5 years. They dont have to tell you or your family were you are. They dont even have to tell you why you are there. You dont get a lawyer or even a phone call. You are vanish off the earth until they figure out what they want to do with you. They get to do this just by saying "we fear that you are a terrorist or have terrorist plots". If you dont believe me google search it. Or if you want to keep argueing i will find it for you. The US government has done stupid stuff like this before. Go ahead and read resent documents on Pearl Harbor and you tell me that they dont kill americans to get what they want. They will do what ever it takes to go to war when they want to.
And actually there is logic behind destroying your own people. Read The Prince and you will understand.
Watch the movie again it answers all of your questions. They answer them in detail, with scientests, experts and people who were actually there.
Finally why should i have to give you evidnce of anything? I think your the one who should have to prove me wrong. Loose change proved enough evidence that is not answered. Why dont you try to disprove it with your own evidence.
One more thing...Dont call ignorant when you have the bloated ego of a idiotic american. Get out of your celebrity educed new coma and go out and read some real new. If you read any kind of world new you would open your eyes to the stupid ideology that is americas wannabe unipolor system. How do you call me a sorry excuse for a free-thinker when you dont know the first thing about global politics? If you dont know that France is not an american allie than you dont have the right to call me ignaornt because that statement allows shows me you know nothing about the world. You need to get out of america's stupid wannabe unipolor realm and understand that in order to make globilazation work you need to be a citizen of the world before an american system. Its the US's fault that the UN is a coalition and not a thriving force of the world. Just because america's bloated ego wants to be the central pivit of everything the world does does not make it right. I bet that you dont even know who Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Ehud Olmert are let alone John bolton or Kofi Annan. So until you read up on the worlds global postion dont come in here with your sorry excuse for a free-thinker bullshit and try to tell me that im sheep-minded when you have the typical mind of a stupid american.
Oh and go ahead and google those names if you dont know them because you should anyway.
wow, they let you have internet at the circus!?
you guys must be doing pretty well there.
lol dont mock my circus life its a hell of a lot of fun. I get paid damn good money to do the best job in the world.
Heh, bibleness is like my complete love. Well, I hate the bible, but I read it often as a child, and now it's like a weapon for me :)
Instead of having to say the bible isn't good enough evidence(which is still very valid), it's easier to simply point out how the person's point is irrelevant, EVEN assuming the bible to be true.
-There is no sin save faith
even though i dislike bush also, I would not spend all my time just insulting and criticizing him. he has done a few good things. Plus some of the bad things he has done he atleast didnt do to their fullest bad extent. But hating gets you nowhere. If anything i would observe the mistakes, and be aware of them, and do not make them myself
or in our case, use them to relay over future candidates, so we can better our judgement on people running for the presidency
Bush has good ideas but when he puts them into practice it ends up terrible
Maybe, then, we just need someone, perhaps like an advisor, one that actually is good to help him out a bit. Like the first mentally impaired president or something
Yea thats what we need another friend of bush to be in office for a bullshit job lol. He is almost out of office lets hope he doesnt fuck up to much before then.
well, would you rather he fucked up or perhaps just maybe made something with the huge pile of feces that he has been saving up that is meaningful?
yea but id rather he doesnt hire any more morons to give out americas tax dollars to for no aparent reason.
The tax dollars will go somewhere eventually, I mean, i agree where there are way too many stupid jobs, but that doesnt mean that there isnt one or two or more that actually have a good meaning
True but if bush gets to pick who gets the job than its going to be a pointless job because he will pick a friend of family member to do it.
He hasnt always done that man, one thing about bush is that he is friends with anyone who is willing to be friends with him. I think if the person is a friend, it is because bush got to know him. But bush is a family man, you can tell by how he runs things. family and friends are his life
Ok but putting friends and family is bad for business, especially when your business is the american government.
I agree, what i am saying is i think that he hires someone, and befriends them afterwards. like a work relationship. he seems like that kind of fellow.
Dont just say that, give supporting facts or NO ONE will take you seriously at all. I dont think he is absolutely horrible. I think he may not have done too many good things, but he still has done a few. The whole iran thing, it could have been avoided, but atleast he is going about screwing us over in a somewhat interesting way.
he really is a bad president. I have this huge countdown on my wall untill he is out of office, and one on my computer down to the milisecond, from backwardsbush.com. I think he is one of the worst things that happened, to not only this country but the entire planet.