Sex before marrige.
Offline I posted this on the sam harris site ( author of The End of Faith) a long time ago, I'm wondering how you all will react to it. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
"This is my first post on this site, but it is something of great importance to me. I am 15 years young and have always kept an open mind towards most things, recently I started dating a conservative church going Christian, who’s parents are more intolerant of other religions, ideas etc. than anyone I’ve ever had the misfortune to meet. After a few months or so her parents pulled me aside and told me that they had the suspicion and absolute reason to believe we were having sex. This of course was not true but I could tell it was a very big issue for them. They made changes and now I have basically stopped dating the girl. I’m very confused on why many Christians make sex before marriage such an enormous deal.
I’ve thought about it for a while and I’ve found a few undeniable reasons to why humans are not nessisarily supposed to wait until marriage to have sex.
Firstly humans of both genders start producing the tools used to create new life, around the ages of 10-18. At this time, ANY two people of different sexes can have sex and have a baby.
I’ve personally heard that men reach a sexual peak at the ripe age of 18 year old, and start a downward spiral after that. Where women’s sexual peaks rise until they reach stages of menopause (I do not know if these fact are completely true). Wouldn’t the fact that men reach a sexual peak that early prove that men should have sex for procreation earlier? By the time a man can legally get married – in most states – he will have already hit this peak. And people that wait to get married later on in life, will have long missed their sexual peaks, in which they are most sexually active.
Also throughout a mans life, seamen is constantly being made, if this seaman is not used within a certain amount of time, one way or another, it is expelled from the body during nocturnal emissions. The seaman expelled is rendered useless. This happens from middles stages of puberty at ages as low as 10. Therefore the seaman that is not used during sexual intercourse because a person is waiting for marriage is lost.
Lastly, nothing in the laws of marriage changes any one person physically. The moment you say, “I do” your body does not shift and form and seamen is made. Your body is able, at earlier stages of life. Not directly after your marriage. This is the same for many other things as well. The moment you turn 18, and are eligible to vote, you are not suddenly filled with the correct political knowledge in order to vote.
Men and women are physically able to have sex at earlier stages of life, and are able to as soon as puberty hits. If the fictional characters of the bible, Adam and Eve were to have waited for the holy matrimony of marriage, than there would be no human race (according to the bible).
I would thoroughly enjoy feedback of all kinds. Negative and positive. It is very important that I hear some.
AndyB"
At first I got some interesting feedback. Mostly people telling to "talk to my parents", and to save it till I'm older. But this post isnt about ME. Its about the science of the situation. Not the morals, diseases, or emotional effect sex can have on people. This post is about the science of humans, and when they are ABLE to reproduce. Also please dont take this as a cry for help. Its not about my situation that I care about.
Thank you for your feedback :)
No, three years is too much. I think that there needs to be a point where we stop making their parents stop supporting them (never know who would cheat just to have mommy take care of them till they were 50) - But I also think that we should allow people to take it whenever they want, but only start really pushing it at around 16 or so...
You say, "Wouldn’t the fact that men reach a sexual peak that early prove that men should have sex for procreation earlier?...Men and women are specifically made to have sex at earlier stages of life, and are able to as soon as puberty hits," and "Its about the science of the situation. Not the morals, diseases, or emotional effect sex can have on people."
Firstly, people are not made for any purpose. Our genes are what they are because of evolution (changes in genetic frequencies in subsequent generations).
Secondly, you commit the naturalistic fallacy by assuming that a person [i]ought[/i] to have sex for procreation just b/c he [i]is[/i] horny and fertile. When people [i]should[/i] have sex is a moral question, not a question of fact/science. You are arguing that people should not wait until after marriage to have sex because they are reproductively fertile before marriage. Just b/c people are fertile doesn't mean they should have sex (likewise, just b/c people are sterile doesn't mean they shouldn't have sex). Also, humans [i]can[/i] have sex even before puberty, but that doesn't mean that children and babies [i]should[/i] have sex. If a guy is full of testosterone and feels like being aggressive, should he beat someone up? If you want to pee during class, should you pee in the classroom? Just b/c you can and want to do something doesn't mean you should do it.
Yes, I'm very amused when people seem to try to make scientific laws, being descriptive, into normative or prescriptive philosophies. It's because they actually believe that science is a religion apparently. But they only seem to think that for evolution and sex things. Nobody speaks of the morals of gravity. People fail to realize that while they seem different, there is no categorical difference between those two laws. They both describe different things, but fall under the same category
Ok since no onther christian wants to step up and talk abou this I will.
Your girlfriends parents are protecting her from having sex not just becuase they dont want her to get pregnant but becuase the christian faith believes that (and it has been proven outside of the christian faith) that when you have sex with someone it releases endorphins and creates a psychological and spiritual bond between the couple.
Guys you know that when ever you have sex it brings back past sexual memories, wiether it be a smell that triggers it or a action.
Now, I am a virgin and iam going to stay that way until marriage. ONLY becuase I dont want to marry someone and end up telling her that shes on my top 20 lovers list.
in the words of Lakita Garth "I do means, i do you, you do me, and we dont do anyone else. No ringy, no dingy!"
The bible (even though most of you will probably shove this down my throat, iam posting it for other ppl who believe in the bible) states that once you
"pop her cherry" and the blood touches your penis... spiritually she should be the only person your with. However... back then everyone was either a virgin or married.... those of you who are interested read Hebrews 13:4
OH and more info on 1this topic.... go to http://www.clubvarsity.org/sexfiles.shtml
now my main reason i want ot stay with one person... IS
in the real world:
42,000 people will contract a sexually transmitted disease (STD)
2/3 of them will be under the age of 25.
About 50% of the entire sexually active single adult population has at least one STD
STD's accounted for 87% of all cases among the top ten most frequently reported infections in the U.S. during 1997
About 750,000 unmarried teens will become pregnant
It is estimated that 20% of all Americans over the age of 11 are infected with genital herpes
Almost 4,000 abortions will be performed today
I think, that perhaps you just retorted to yourself by saying
"in the real world"
The last reasons you gave were fair enough, It is a decision afterall. I do also agree with your reasoning of not wanting to tell them they are in your "top 20 lovers". But yeah...
I'd like to see somewhere where someone 'proved' that sex creates a 'spiritual' bond.
[quote=Bryan T]Atleast in my opinion atleast your first time should be meaningful. That is my belief. Dont go and have sex with a random guy for your first time make it meaningful.
[/quote]
Yeah. I'm a virgin, and don't have any plans to change that soon. Imight have sex in High school, but I might not. If peoplewant towait till marriage thats fine, if they don't, thats also good. I do think, though, that the first time should be meaningful. Well, second time. I've heard the first time for girls kinda sucks.
[quote]I've heard the first time for girls kinda sucks.[/quote]
The first [i]couple of times[/i] for girls reallllyy suck. Well, some girls. *cough* paaaiiinnnn! :(
[quote=Toxicat][quote]I've heard the first time for girls kinda sucks.[/quote]
The first [i]couple of times[/i] for girls reallllyy suck. Well, some girls. *cough* paaaiiinnnn! :([/quote]
Well, now I know that somebody in here is not a virgin.
Lay off
[quote=liberal agnostic]Lay off[/quote]
I'm not talking to you.
I haven't given my opinion. :P
I grew up in a country where it's taboo for girls to wear skirts (my parents are more liberal though). I guess I grew up thinking that I was gonna get married, start a family, all that traditional stuff. I never had a problem with premarital sex though, but now as an anarchist-atheist the idea of marriage pretty much collapses - it's basically a couple that loves each other living together, with neither religion nor government. So I really don't care about premarital sex. I've never had a boyfriend so I can't know what it's like though. But oh well.
My younger brother lost his virginity a while back! He says it's fun. I'm still a virgin though...unlike some people here.
Anyway, premarital sex should be between two people that really [b]love[/b] each other. BTW, real [b]love[/b] is when you know you're going to marry the person you're with, not the person you're banging like a screen door in a hurricane.
Most theists think that atheists shouldn't really care about this stuff since they think that the atheists' worldview is that we're nothing but animals, therefore it's ok to have sex with random people.
Morons.
It's about [b]love[/b]!
My friend (who doesn't care much about religion) once implied that premarital sex was the same thing as prostitution. *Sigh*
LOL!
Well I told her I wasn't talking about sex with random people, but she said that if you're going to sleep with a person you're going to marry, then there's no reason you shouldn't wait until marriage - her reason was that the girl might get pregnant (I wish I'd suggested an abortion - I still haven't been able to get why she's so hung-up about sex before marriage.)
Yeah, you should have sex with someone you love.BTW, teens (well 16 and below) can't be in love, not the way adults are. Ask a phsyciastrist(i can't spell well). Teens have some form of 'love' but not an emotional connection like that of a married couple. That is why the term 'like' i used in place of love. "I like you," "What girl do you like?" "I like you as a friend.' Now the word like has a completely different meaning than what it was originally.
Okay that was off topic. Still, teens who have sex can often become depressed, because they think that sex is all there is, and once they have it they realize it wasn't what they hoped. Put more simply, they don't think they have anything to look forward to. But that isn't true. They can look forward to actual love, as opposed to the cheaper version.
However, I definately do NOT subscribe to the church of thought on the evils of masturbation. 90 percent of men do it and the rest lie. and like 70% of women.
I think they are actually pretty seperate concepts.
[quote]My younger brother lost his virginity a while back! He says it's fun. I'm still a virgin though...unlike some people here.[/quote]
I think it's okay to have fun as long as you're not careless. It's your life, it's your body. Waiting for the right person is a good idea in order to prevent having major regrets. That way, even if you don't end up marrying the person that you lost your virginity to, at least you'd know that it was something great. By no means should premarital sex be taken lightly, but I don't think it's something atrocious like many theists make it out to be.
Yeah, like American Atheist said, it's about love. Not the game. :P
I'm tired of the name "American Atheist".
Y'all can call me Mike. :)
[quote=Toxicat]I think it's okay to have fun as long as you're not careless. It's your life, it's your body. Waiting for the right person is a good idea in order to prevent having major regrets. That way, even if you don't end up marrying the person that you lost your virginity to, at least you'd know that it was something great. By no means should premarital sex be taken lightly, but I don't think it's something atrocious like many theists make it out to be.[/quote]
Good point.
But I've never understood why all the girls that my brother has dated have slept with him. The guy is an asshole for real. I need to talk to that boy sometime.
[quote]Yeah, like American Atheist said, it's about love. Not the game. :P[/quote]
Indeed. ;)
Agree. :)
My parents always told me to get married when I'm like 35 years old!
35?? Wow.
I doubt my grandparents would approve of me kissing a guy unless I was at least engaged to him! My parents went on only one date and that was when they were engaged. :O
They wanted me to get married at 35 because they got married young and they thought it would've been better to get married much older.
I don't really plan on getting married anyway. There's no point.
[quote=noor]My parents went on only one date and that was when they were engaged.[/quote]
Was it one of them arranged marriages?
[quote=American Atheist]I don't really plan on getting married anyway. There's no point.[/quote]
Me neither.
[quote][quote=noor]My parents went on only one date and that was when they were engaged.[/quote]
Was it one of them arranged marriages?[/quote]
Kind of. They met and liked each other, but the more important part was that the families approved. A lot of people are more liberal now though. (Traditional families wouldn't even allow two people to be even attracted to each other, let alone act on it. :O)
I like what Penn says, abstinence is a kink, nothing more or less.
However, marriage does have a point. It has medical and death (etc.) benefits.
It's not really the benefits. I can live with one girl for the rest of my life. But marriage says "they're supposed to be together for the rest of their lives."
Yeah...and guess how many people end up getting divorced? Which can be a pretty hard time especially if there's kids, based on what I've heard.
Personally I don't know if I'll ever get married or not. I might, I might not. I may decide to just live with one guy for my whole life without getting married. I'm not the kind of person who thinks too much about the future, anyway.
Thing is, without religion or government, marriage is neither a religious nor a legal union, which makes it virtually equivalent to a live-together boyfriend-girlfriend relationship. So the idea of marriage pretty much crashed down for me when I found myself turning market anarchist in addition to my atheism.