Sex before marrige.
Offline I posted this on the sam harris site ( author of The End of Faith) a long time ago, I'm wondering how you all will react to it. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
"This is my first post on this site, but it is something of great importance to me. I am 15 years young and have always kept an open mind towards most things, recently I started dating a conservative church going Christian, who’s parents are more intolerant of other religions, ideas etc. than anyone I’ve ever had the misfortune to meet. After a few months or so her parents pulled me aside and told me that they had the suspicion and absolute reason to believe we were having sex. This of course was not true but I could tell it was a very big issue for them. They made changes and now I have basically stopped dating the girl. I’m very confused on why many Christians make sex before marriage such an enormous deal.
I’ve thought about it for a while and I’ve found a few undeniable reasons to why humans are not nessisarily supposed to wait until marriage to have sex.
Firstly humans of both genders start producing the tools used to create new life, around the ages of 10-18. At this time, ANY two people of different sexes can have sex and have a baby.
I’ve personally heard that men reach a sexual peak at the ripe age of 18 year old, and start a downward spiral after that. Where women’s sexual peaks rise until they reach stages of menopause (I do not know if these fact are completely true). Wouldn’t the fact that men reach a sexual peak that early prove that men should have sex for procreation earlier? By the time a man can legally get married – in most states – he will have already hit this peak. And people that wait to get married later on in life, will have long missed their sexual peaks, in which they are most sexually active.
Also throughout a mans life, seamen is constantly being made, if this seaman is not used within a certain amount of time, one way or another, it is expelled from the body during nocturnal emissions. The seaman expelled is rendered useless. This happens from middles stages of puberty at ages as low as 10. Therefore the seaman that is not used during sexual intercourse because a person is waiting for marriage is lost.
Lastly, nothing in the laws of marriage changes any one person physically. The moment you say, “I do” your body does not shift and form and seamen is made. Your body is able, at earlier stages of life. Not directly after your marriage. This is the same for many other things as well. The moment you turn 18, and are eligible to vote, you are not suddenly filled with the correct political knowledge in order to vote.
Men and women are physically able to have sex at earlier stages of life, and are able to as soon as puberty hits. If the fictional characters of the bible, Adam and Eve were to have waited for the holy matrimony of marriage, than there would be no human race (according to the bible).
I would thoroughly enjoy feedback of all kinds. Negative and positive. It is very important that I hear some.
AndyB"
At first I got some interesting feedback. Mostly people telling to "talk to my parents", and to save it till I'm older. But this post isnt about ME. Its about the science of the situation. Not the morals, diseases, or emotional effect sex can have on people. This post is about the science of humans, and when they are ABLE to reproduce. Also please dont take this as a cry for help. Its not about my situation that I care about.
Thank you for your feedback :)
We can help you with that too lol.
And I guarantee after reading everyones arguments you're going to gain a lot of knowledge and become far better in debates
you do, but you dont support the sense, which is what you need to work on
[quote=Bryan T]In my personal opinion all public highschools should give out free condoms and so should church's. Catholics are so hell bent on not changing with the times it is ruining there religion. If they would just change to adabt to the younger generation than i doubt most of us would even be on this forum. [/quote]
The stupid reason behind that is because catholics believe that everytime you have sex, you MUST have a child. To pass out condoms would be hypocritical of them to the teens AND the adults. But I do agree on passing them out in high school.
so, even though this is off topic, has anyone read anything from HERMANN HESSE???
I will. I'll become good at debateing, eventually.
And I will. Just haven't yet. I work at the library. I start up agian the 29th of this month, I'll definatly get it by then
that is good, libraries are an amazing place to debate. if you need proof you are surrounded by it
AND there are adorable, impressionable little children I work with.
And if I don't get better at debating I will find some way to maim myself....or as I threatened to annoying fifth grader on my bus I will impale myself with knitting needles.
*EDIT!*
that made me sound like I was going to, I meant it as I was definatly going to get better
hahaha wow , dont do that. but if i were you i would mold the children to your wants and make them slaves
Oh I will. The children will be little kimi clones.
Even though I have three 7 and 4 year old boys.
the boyhood can be fixed.... but for the love of god (lmao) dont cut off their penis's and drill vaginas, that would be soo painful
I might
depends if the kids are annoying, I haven't met them yet.
It also depends how they would look in my clothes.
ha, well you dont necissarily need to dress them like you . even though it would be damn funny to see little yous. even though i dont know what you look like. the idea is amusing
Oh I am scary. 5 foot seven. Always in long peasent skirts, or shorter skirts with black tights and neon fishnets, and the odd tee shirt, or crazy tee shirt that I make. With a messenger back with a canadian flag and rainbows all over it. and glasses and so much makeup I look like a whore sometimes.
hahaha that sounds like fun. ha i am 5`7" also. but i am forced to wear hollister and AE :( that is my mother doing that to me
ow. Your clothing hurts me
im sorry, my mom only lets me get them. if i wear anything else she denies services such as ride to school or money and shit
that really REALLY sucks.
it does, she figures if my sister is preppy i have to too. which really bugs me. my sister is soo damn preppy. i refuse to wear tight jeans. and it pisses off my mother
ha ha
My parents always make fun of me though. But I refuse to wear anything else. It's good though, both my sisters are pretty but my older brother is like me
you can be pretty any way you dress. but hey, i also accepted you on myspace. and.... you signed out of aim again
my stupid AIM hates me
mine has been messing up alot as i have told you. If anyone knows anything about computers and McAfee in specific can you contact me?
I wont get into parenting right now because i dont have that much time to talk but all of the underage sex, is that even possible though underage sex? anyway, is the parents fault. I know every teen in here will agree that stupid snooby kids are only that way because of there parents.
Can you translate that sentence to normal english for me?
I don't agree that stupid snobby kids are that way because of their parents.
I agree that public schools should give out condoms, but there are organizations that od so as well.
-There is no sin save faith
ЏҖAndyB123ҖЏ
Wow this thread has really gone off course...but I really like the diversity of the answers I've recieved. Its a lot different than what I got from the Sam Harris forum...
ha yes it did get ofcourse, but answered the question.
Personally, I think sex before marriage isn't morally wrong, I just don't think casual sex is for me... I'm sure it works for other people, but I'm a bit too personally conservative and overly logical.
-There is no sin save faith
Wow, I jsut realized my signature has been doubling since the beginning.
yes it has. lol. are you kim's brother?
we dont need more people, so use birth control or a condom or two and be safe, also get tested for any std's, and have her tested, better safe and fucked, then totally screwed.
actually, how many more people we need you will NEVER know. there many opinions and things that would require more people. having less people just makes it easier for you because the less people there are the less crowded it is obviously. Your opinion is based on greed. I do however agree that the condoms and birth control and testing are a good way to go about it safely. but the birth control may be pushing it because i think the underage part makes it so the majority of the time the parents will not know about it. so i dunno if most can obtain birth control.
[quote=blood pig]Not to bring up the patheticness of myspace, but there's bulletins with sickning images that just shock the shit out of you being posted constantly.
I mean, if you're 15 and fucking the town, then either you grow up and take good care of the baby, or you have it and put it up for ADOPTION.
People seem to forget the Adoption option/[/quote]
MySpace isn't necceserally pathetic, just a majority of the people that use it.
But anyway, I'm gonna reply to the original topic.
I have no problem with sex, it's marriage I don't like. Sharing a house with another person, waking up in a room you didn't furnish, bathrooms with fucking frame pictures of lighthouses in it? If I ever get 'married', we're living in seperate houses. I adore my personal space, so much that I endanger my social life through it.
On the other hand, I've not been a virgin since I was 14, which was 3 years ago. Since then I've engaged in sex with 6 different people, and I'm only counting intercourse. For me, sex is just sex. There's no lovey dovey shit to it, though that makes it more exciting. It's two people, fulfilling their urges and discarding their humbleness (hopefully).
Want some good advice though? All in moderation.
[quote=GrapeScentedGuru][quote=blood pig]Not to bring up the patheticness of myspace, but there's bulletins with sickning images that just shock the shit out of you being posted constantly.
I mean, if you're 15 and fucking the town, then either you grow up and take good care of the baby, or you have it and put it up for ADOPTION.
People seem to forget the Adoption option/[/quote]
MySpace isn't necceserally pathetic, just a majority of the people that use it.[/quote]
Very true. But it makes me pathetic because when i'm bored as shit, it's all that entertains me.
And half the time it fails at that.
How do you figure that stupid snobby kids are not the fault of the parents? The parents give them everything they want instead of telling them no, this in turn makes the kids feel they have the power to control there parents which in turn makes them feel that they have power over all people lesser than them. Also parents do not punish there kids now a days like they use to. I am all for punishing kids if they deserve it, I would even go as far to say that hitting a child everyone and than is ok but in moderation of course. Now I do not mean teens I mean children 10 and under. Because this is when a kid is most impressionable. If a parent does not establish control over a situation when it deals with a child the child will assume that it is in control and will use that to gain what they want.
I wont get into parenting right now because I don’t have that much time to talk but all of the underage sex, is that even possible though underage sex? anyway, is the parents fault. I know every teen in here will agree that stupid snobby kids are only that way because of there parents.
Ok now for my "translation" for you. First thought...underage sex...what I meant by that is that since when did sex become something that people under the age of 18 or 21 can not do? If you can legally buy a dildo at the age of 16 or legally be able to buy condoms if you can reach the counter at 7/11 how is there such thing as underage sex?
And in my above argument I explained my views on parenting.(All of my views on parents actually come from my g/f's books. She took a class on early childhood development and I read all of her books and that is were I formed my argument and facts on early childhood development and parenting.)
OH and also...This post give me 666 points just thought it was worth mentioning lol.
i think people use the term underage due to the fact that a good majority think that sex is bad under the age of 18. So to make understanding easier they use that term
How is it the parents fault? 100%? Some people obviously avoid that influence, whereas some people are snobby without such parents.
What do you bais your theory on? The biggest influence of any kid under 10 is there parents.
True, but once they hit older they'll start to see the flaws in what their parents believe. Not ALL of them will...but a lot will.
I'd say a majority of it is parents..but definitely not 100%.
If you're raised racist..You're either going to remain racist, or see the flaws. Same with religion. So through all that rambling..i'll just say
[b]i think it's 50-50[/b]
ok but lets drop the parental influence can we? i am uncomfortable with the subject, and i will not give my opinion on this if it is the primary topic
Its just a valid point on the subject...
As for underage sex, I definately am an advocate of that. If they're 18 (which is detirmined to be the average age that humans reach full chemical maturity), then there's less of a chance they're going to do something they'll regret.
As for buying a dildo at 16, I'd be much less embarresed for masturbation with a phallic object than with some friend from school.
If I were a girl that is. Sex is much more serious for girls because of the image is presents, and though that shouldn't matter, it does.
i dont think age matters
I used the dildo thing just to prove the point that since when is it illegal for consenting people under 18 to have sex? That was my point with that one.
GrapeScentedGuru - that's true with the image thing. If a guy has a lot of sex 'he's the man' or 'he's awsome' or a 'player', if girl does, she's a whore, or a slut.
[quote=KimTheFaerieFreak]GrapeScentedGuru - that's true with the image thing. If a guy has a lot of sex 'he's the man' or 'he's awsome' or a 'player', if girl does, she's a whore, or a slut.[/quote]
I use to think that too..But once I grew up more and got into highschool, I started seeing that a lot of the guys are looked down on too.
Well around here, in the middle of no where, guys are praised for it, while girls are...not.
Well it all depends on the guy really.
And who's praising them for it.
Guy's will praise them for it only because, hey, he gets a lot of pussy and that's just how guys are.
...lucky not all guys. Like my bitches. They are the least guyish straight boys ever. But yeah, it's just like other guys and stuff.
Maybe it's because we're pumped full of testoserone. Sort of like if a kid kicks someone, they're immature and rash. If a teen does, they're cruel and mean.
Only those labels actually work.
I don't think masturbation counts as sex.
I guess unless a guy masturbates directly onto(and into) a girl, and that's just pretty weird. I'm still not sure if that counts. I'm somewhat of a literalist, so by sex, I would think of it in a biological sense.