Sex before marrige.
Offline I posted this on the sam harris site ( author of The End of Faith) a long time ago, I'm wondering how you all will react to it. I'd like to hear your thoughts.
"This is my first post on this site, but it is something of great importance to me. I am 15 years young and have always kept an open mind towards most things, recently I started dating a conservative church going Christian, who’s parents are more intolerant of other religions, ideas etc. than anyone I’ve ever had the misfortune to meet. After a few months or so her parents pulled me aside and told me that they had the suspicion and absolute reason to believe we were having sex. This of course was not true but I could tell it was a very big issue for them. They made changes and now I have basically stopped dating the girl. I’m very confused on why many Christians make sex before marriage such an enormous deal.
I’ve thought about it for a while and I’ve found a few undeniable reasons to why humans are not nessisarily supposed to wait until marriage to have sex.
Firstly humans of both genders start producing the tools used to create new life, around the ages of 10-18. At this time, ANY two people of different sexes can have sex and have a baby.
I’ve personally heard that men reach a sexual peak at the ripe age of 18 year old, and start a downward spiral after that. Where women’s sexual peaks rise until they reach stages of menopause (I do not know if these fact are completely true). Wouldn’t the fact that men reach a sexual peak that early prove that men should have sex for procreation earlier? By the time a man can legally get married – in most states – he will have already hit this peak. And people that wait to get married later on in life, will have long missed their sexual peaks, in which they are most sexually active.
Also throughout a mans life, seamen is constantly being made, if this seaman is not used within a certain amount of time, one way or another, it is expelled from the body during nocturnal emissions. The seaman expelled is rendered useless. This happens from middles stages of puberty at ages as low as 10. Therefore the seaman that is not used during sexual intercourse because a person is waiting for marriage is lost.
Lastly, nothing in the laws of marriage changes any one person physically. The moment you say, “I do” your body does not shift and form and seamen is made. Your body is able, at earlier stages of life. Not directly after your marriage. This is the same for many other things as well. The moment you turn 18, and are eligible to vote, you are not suddenly filled with the correct political knowledge in order to vote.
Men and women are physically able to have sex at earlier stages of life, and are able to as soon as puberty hits. If the fictional characters of the bible, Adam and Eve were to have waited for the holy matrimony of marriage, than there would be no human race (according to the bible).
I would thoroughly enjoy feedback of all kinds. Negative and positive. It is very important that I hear some.
AndyB"
At first I got some interesting feedback. Mostly people telling to "talk to my parents", and to save it till I'm older. But this post isnt about ME. Its about the science of the situation. Not the morals, diseases, or emotional effect sex can have on people. This post is about the science of humans, and when they are ABLE to reproduce. Also please dont take this as a cry for help. Its not about my situation that I care about.
Thank you for your feedback :)
Also if you would like to check out the original post and the replies it got, check out the link ------> http://www.samharris.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1084&highlight=sex
AndyB123
It is pretty much the fact that parents dont want there kids having sex plain and simple as that. It use to be that an older man would marry a young women, 14-16, and they would have sex. But through modern times it has come that parents do not want there kids to experiance such a thing at such an early age. Sad to say that i know 7nth and 8th graders who have casual sex. I personly did not lose my virginity until i was 17 but that was out of respect of my gf's wishs. The whole no sex before marriage this is just another rule but together by the modern catholic church to stop people from having fun, no joking lol. But seriously put there to stop bastard children and teen parents. Lets face it most if not all teenagers are stupid in one aspect or another. they are not ready do deal with having a child. Being ready to have sex and being ready do take care of another living being is 2 completley diffrent things. I have sex but that does not mean i can handle a child of my own.
My favorite part of the catholic religion is through the church you can get your virginity back...twice. Sadly i am not joking. With enough money and prayer you can get your virginity back in the eyes of the church.
well fuck, i'm not a virgin, so i say to hell with that part of religion.
I think that's another thing that religion takes way to seriously.
I mean we have the organs and the sexual drive like you said, so why not use them [b]WHEN YOU'RE MATURE ENOUGH AND READY TO[/b].
But when they promote Abstinence and refuse to promote condom use? Well that's just plain stupid.
Seriously, i'd listen more to the "don't be silly protect your willy" statements then the "don't ever have sex it's a sin!" statements.
Not to mention they are going to lack the knowledge of safe sex. All they're going to know is DON'T HAVE IT!
[quote=Bryan T]It is pretty much the fact that parents dont want there kids having sex plain and simple as that. It use to be that an older man would marry a young women, 14-16, and they would have sex. But through modern times it has come that parents do not want there kids to experiance such a thing at such an early age. Sad to say that i know 7nth and 8th graders who have casual sex. I personly did not lose my virginity until i was 17 but that was out of respect of my gf's wishs. The whole no sex before marriage this is just another rule but together by the modern catholic church to stop people from having fun, no joking lol. But seriously put there to stop bastard children and teen parents. Lets face it most if not all teenagers are stupid in one aspect or another. they are not ready do deal with having a child. Being ready to have sex and being ready do take care of another living being is 2 completley diffrent things. I have sex but that does not mean i can handle a child of my own.
My favorite part of the catholic religion is through the church you can get your virginity back...twice. Sadly i am not joking. With enough money and prayer you can get your virginity back in the eyes of the church.
[/quote]
HAHA YOU CAN PAY YOUR WAY IN TO "HEAVEN"?! That's just funny
"To build my own religion. No Gods. No Laws"-Otep
www.myspace.com/xxfailurexbyxdesignxx
In Puerto Rico they actually threatened to excommunicate doctors who perform abortions. The first legal abortion in PR is suppose to be on a 10 year old girl who was raped by her step-father but no doctor will do it because of the threat by the church...yea you tell me that the catholic church is forgiving and helpful.
Dude that's bullshit.. I mean if the kid was older then 10 and not raped, I can kind of see the logic there..but come on, that's really pushing it. The doctors need to grow some nuts and say "screw the church". It's sad they respect the church's wishes ONLY because a form of black-mail which is wrong.
Yea it is a lot of bullshit. Sadly enough one of my friends was raped when she was 12 and had to get an abortion and the church actually kicked her out because of it.
aw :( that's horrible.
See, I have my views on abortion too, but if rapes the case, I see it as definitely one of the main options. I wouldn't want to have a child that was forced..Everytime I looked at it I would be reminded of how it was created.
I think I would go with abortion even if i'd get kicked out of a church(if i attended one), my future and present is far more important then any religion in my eyes.
The whole abortion thing is so dumb. Right now second trimester is the legal limit, thats 6 months about. Ok now honestly thing about it if it takes you that long to think about getting one than you should diserve to get one. I think you should get 3 weeks to figure it out and thats it. I know this is harsh but really its not that hard of a choice its either your going to be a good parent or a bad one and there is your choice. Stupid ass people.
Also i hate abortion protesters. They are the most vial and low scum of the earth. They show, publicly mind you, pictures of dead babies and diseased women. It is unmoral and down right disgusting. I dont know why the police dont stop them. I have never had the chance but if i was around to see an abortion rally the crazy side of me would get out and i would start destroying the signs and posters. Im understand the right to protest but nothing gives you the right to show a 6ft poster of a dead baby. People need to understand the diffrence between moral and stupid.
Not to bring up the patheticness of myspace, but there's bulletins with sickning images that just shock the shit out of you being posted constantly.
I mean, if you're 15 and fucking the town, then either you grow up and take good care of the baby, or you have it and put it up for ADOPTION.
People seem to forget the Adoption option/
Basicly people are stupid lol they dont realize the potential of the subject there just scared of change.
I decided to go make an Abortion thread on this topic. i think it's in the politics/government area.
I see no reason why you can't have sex before marriage as long as you're responsible. I don't have casual sex (straight edge) and am still a virgin, but if I really loved a girl and she was willing, I wouldn't wait untill marriage. That's idiotic.
Nothing wrong with sex before marraige. Just don't do anything stupid, and make sure his/her parents aren't home. Yeah.........
"We now know that the human animal is characterized by two great fears that other animals are protected from: the fear of life and the fear of death..."
-Ernest Becker
Just use condoms and common sense (which isn't that common after all)
[quote=Derevirn]Just use condoms and common sense (which isn't that common after all)[/quote]
Yeah nowadays? Common sense doesn't seem to exsist at all.
That and everyones common sense is different.
But anywho..
I think, that it doesnt matter, as long as you avoid the consequences. bluntly, the whole point of sex is to help populate the world. Doesnt matter what age. If you do worry about pregnancy, find a time when it WONT happen. if you control the situation, you will be fine.
Atleast in my opinion atleast your first time should be meaningful. That is my belief. Dont go and have sex with a random guy for your first time make it meaningful.
Meaningful is nice, but sex is, most would agree, mainly for pleasure. either way, you are most likely going to have a good time. myself i would prefer not to screw random people. In fact, i wouldnt. But either way it would be the same.
Sex is a nice thing but itskind of overdone i guess is the word for it.
Well being bi, and 10 times more sttracted to girls may have swayed me
But I don't want to have sex beforted I'm married. I don't even know I want to have sex ever. But hey thats just me. I know plenty on kids, in my 8th grade class, who have TONS of casual sex. None of my friends, but lots of kids. Infact last year a girl a year older than me had to get an abortion. Personally I would never have an abortion, if you were raped, thats a different story, but if you can't keep your legs closed, just have the kid and take care of it, or put it up for adoption, where a nice little lesbian couple, or gay couple can adopt the adorable child and take care of it. But an abortion would be the persons choice, and no one elses. I say if you want to have sex before your married, that is 100% you and the other persons decision. I do however think that casual sex at 13 is just irresponsible at times
just wrong, that sounds like a christain talking. Wrong and right are subjective. You cant label something like that. It is wrong in certain views, but in other equally good views it is right. It all depends on how you look at it. but you shouldnt ever label it, that is an ignorant thing to do. i think at least.
okay so wrong was the wrong word to use. I didn't mean it that way. I'm sure there is a thirteen year old out there who could take care of a child perfectly. I don't think I could. It's more irresponsible. What is a thirteen year old going to do with a child. Shouldn't they finish school.
It is very simple. Avoid having the child. If you are going to have sex, i say be smart about it. If the situation is under control than you will be fine. Pick a time when pregnancy possibiliity is at its lowest, and also use a condom,. pregnancy will never happen then, if it does than you are so damn unlucky its scary. the percentage chance is less that 1%
But still 1% is still a chance. less the one percent is a chance. It's still possible. Children are wonderful. I love children. They are awsome. But having children at such a young age isn't a genious idea. I say wait until they are older.
it is a good idea either way. but whether or not you want children is the real question. I think anyone who wants a child could most likely take care of them. I mean taking care of children is a primitive task. if not just annoying.
I say wait too. I wouldn't think that it would give you more pleasure to do it where you're 16 than when you're 30. My school is actually a mess with underage sex. We have a childcare class and a daycare for kids, and I'd say 1/4 of those kids are children of students. When my friends or the people I know get pregnant, I'd support them, but my opinion of them would drop. Long winded, but I agree you should wait.
I think the only reason they should honestly wait is if they dont know how to control the situation. If you do know how, and you know the consequences, risks, and everything else and still want to. Then go ahead. people deserve what they cause, but if all that comes out of it is pleasure, then they get pleasure. It is really how you go about the situation i guess.
i personally like "Don't be a fool, cover your tool!"
I agree there. I supose that if you know what you're getting yourself into and know how to handle the situation it could be a good thing.
The sad thing is most people dont know how to control situations. I myself am an asshole in that way :) , i manipulate everything. it is fun stuff. but alot of people dont know how to even control simple situations, because the majority of people are stupid . which is why i think the whole sex before marraige is bad came up. they cant do it right
Take it from someone who knows him. he really is an ASS!
:)
I don't know about being an ass. But I am totally afraid of you
why are you afraid of me?
your scary.
and smart.
making me inferior
you are not inferior to me, and how am i scary? i dont want to give that impression
My guess is because you're far older than her for one and two because you raised an intelligent conversation.
^^
she's right.
Your older. And actually made an intellectual point.
how is that scary though?
It makes me feel inferior.
Which I guess to me is scary.
Which makes me sound like a concieted bitch.
Logic is fun to have and its great to make people feel stupid but dont be afraid here. Were all here to have fun and debate its all in good fun.
Anyway i find it amusing when i talk about sex with my friends. I always get into the arguement with my one friend about condoms. My though is that 99.99% is still and A+. Until you know the diffrent between sex with a condom and sex without you cant properly debate the topic. Every person who has done both will tell you that sex without a condom, though stupid, feels a hell of a lot better. There are plenty of times were for a short period you will go at it without a condom and than put one on and finish. Now i know its not the smartest thing to do but a lot of people will do that.
But on the other hand a lot of stupid people will just not put the condom on an all and that is were we have the problem. The 8th grade generation is very stupid in this sense. A lot of younger siblings of my friends have had sex and done other sexual things and it is very disterbing because i have a friend who has a son, he is only 18. I know what the precussions are and it scares me. The biggest problem with this situation is schools and churches not adabpiting to the situation.
In my personal opinion all public highschools should give out free condoms and so should church's. Catholics are so hell bent on not changing with the times it is ruining there religion. If they would just change to adabt to the younger generation than i doubt most of us would even be on this forum. The problem is most schools and churches wont give out free condoms because they say it promotes sex, but in all actuallity it just promotes safe sex. If 2 people want to have sex there going to do it one way or another no stoping that. You might as well give them an outlet to do it safley so they can enjoy the experiance safely. You shouldnt have to wait until college to get free condoms.
In the thought of junior highs giving out condoms thats a little more touchy. I think that they should give them out if asked there shouldnt be a bowl in the office like a high school should do because that would cause way to many problems with parents.
I wont get into parenting right now because i dont have that much time to talk but all of the underage sex, is that even possible though underage sex? anyway, is the parents fault. I know every teen in here will agree that stupid snooby kids are only that way because of there parents.
Instead of being inferior. State your point straight back at him.
That's what debates are for
Edit- yeah that was to the chick above bryan..damnit
i hate people thinking that they are inferior, it shows lack of self esteem, and i used to think of myself as inferior at times, but then i started not caring :) .
I have always been told "kimi you don't have low self-esteem, you have none at all"
I need to work on that.
well, i think that you will pick up self esteem very soon if you stay on these forums :)
Ha ouch.
Just don't back down or be scared in a discussion. Just show you're not weak and that you can fight just as well as the other person.
It'll get you farther in life.
exactly, i agree. we will help you do that :)
good. I could use some self-esteem.
well, if you need any help in a convo i will back you if you actually are making sense :)
thanks. I don't often make sence though