Reasoning isn't a gift - it's a brain function. It's no more a gift than the ability to move my arm. But I am glad you wish to openly examine claims for and against.

Why would an omnipotent being want a relationship with me? Wouldn't that be akin to be trying to have a personal relationship with the little buggers in my ant farm?

What logic brought you to see a god as necessary? Do you have some knowledge of something matterless existing that I'm lacking? Have you determined a way in which something immaterial in its nature [keep in mind thoughts are chemical reactions in the brain tissue] can affect something material? Have you come up with a coherent, non-contradictory, descriptive definition of what god [i]is[/i]?

Have you found some wait to reconcile the fact that there are a great number of religions out there that all claim that their god exists? Have you found a way to disprove all of the others without relying on special privilege to keep from disproving your own in the process?

Did you come to knowledge of god through anything but the church, your parents, and your society? Have you found a way to reconcile the fact that the largest determiner of your religious views is what your parents believe and what the dominant beliefs in your part of the world are? Can you demonstrate that if you were born in India, you would have the same likelihood of being a Christian?

If you answered no to any of these, you should pursue this line of inquiry and see where it takes you. Until you're able to make a solid and unwavering case for these things, i guarantee you will have a very difficult time trying to persuade others here that Christianity is true. If you choose to ignore these issues, you'll just be burying these doubt-raising questions and thus not really demonstrating your desire to question. Best of luck!

[quote]Reasoning isn't a gift - it's a brain function. It's no more a gift than the ability to move my arm. But I am glad you wish to openly examine claims for and against.[/quote]

Reasoning is without a doubt a gift. It's one of the things God gave us which seperates us from animals. From your claim that reasoning is merely a brain function, I assume you think that the ability to reason is a quality that we obtained when we "evolved" from apes? Doesn't going from instinct and conditioned response to the ability to discover, formulate, infer, and rationalize seem like quite an impossible feat? Reason just quite simply could not be acquired through evolution.

[quote]Why would an omnipotent being want a relationship with me? Wouldn't that be akin to be trying to have a personal relationship with the little buggers in my ant farm?[/quote]

Did you create those ants? No. Therefore you, as well as I, cannot understand God's reasoning in wanting to have a personal relationship with us, even after we turned our backs on him and rejected his commands.

[quote]What logic brought you to see a god as necessary? Do you have some knowledge of something matterless existing that I'm lacking?[/quote]

Observe the world around you. Take in its vastness, splender, and complexity. Look at the inumerable stars in the sky. Take in the sheer size of not only our solar system but our galaxy and better yet the whole universe. And yet, observe how everything remains in a specific orbit and order. See how the earth is placed at the perfect orbit around the sun: any further from the sun and we would freeze, and yet any closer and we would burn up. On a molecular scale: Where do molecules come from? Where do the atoms that make up those molecules come from? Where do the protons, neutrons and electrons that make up those atoms come from? And where do the quarks that make up protons and neutrons come from? With all of these things (and many more observations could be made) taken into account, is it really more logical to believe that this world could exist without God? No. The universe, in all its complexity and order, simply could not exist without divine creation.

[quote]Have you determined a way in which something immaterial in its nature [keep in mind thoughts are chemical reactions in the brain tissue] can affect something material?[/quote]

Well it seems to me that for this "immaterial something" to be able to affect something material, it would need only one characteristic: omnipotence. Omnipotence is a characteristic commonly used to describe God. Technically, no I cannot describe to you how our infinite God created the universe, as this would be impossible for any finite human mind to comprehend. On the flipside, have you determined a way in which something material could originate from nothing and how that material something was then manipulated into the formation of the universe and life within the universe?

[quote]Have you come up with a coherent, non-contradictory, descriptive definition of what god is?[/quote]

God is the omniscient, omnipotent, loving and caring creator of the universe and everything (including life) within the universe. He made us in his image and gave us dominion over the earth. He sacrificed his son for the forgiveness of the sins of his creation, saving us from eternal salvation. He is the alpha and the omega. He always was and always will be.

[quote]Have you found some wait to reconcile the fact that there are a great number of religions out there that all claim that their god exists?[/quote]

Religions other than Christianity are all lies created by people dead in their transgressions and sins who have not been given the understanding of Christ. Innately, we, as a part of our human nature, all have a desire to worship something. These religions are merely compensation religions created to "fill the void", so to speak.

[quote]Have you found a way to disprove all of the others without relying on special privilege to keep from disproving your own in the process?[/quote]

In order to do this wouldn't someone have to study every "Holy Book" for every religion. Which admittedly, I have not.

[quote]Did you come to knowledge of god through anything but the church, your parents, and your society?[/quote]

Does it matter how you find out? Everybody finds out about their beliefs from somewhere. No matter who you find out your beliefs from, you still have a choice whether or not to believe them.

[quote]Have you found a way to reconcile the fact that the largest determiner of your religious views is what your parents believe and what the dominant beliefs in your part of the world are?[/quote]

Have you found a way to reconcile that in Korea, it is estimated that there are more Christians than in America? According to your statement above, it seems as if their religion should be something more to the effect of Confucianism, Islam, or Buddhism.

[quote]Can you demonstrate that if you were born in India, you would have the same likelihood of being a Christian?[/quote]

If reincarnation was an option, then yes. One doctrine of Christianity is election. It states that those who are elect are called to be in Christ and are adopted as his sons.

[quote]Not only does God exist[/quote]

Proof?

[quote]He is a loving, caring God who wants a personal relationship with us.[/quote]

Like when he smitted people?

[quote]He has given many gifts. One of them is reason.[/quote]

1. Reason is an evoultionary trait
2. Anymore gifts?

[quote]I will test my beliefs against yours, and will be truly freethinking.[/quote]

Freethinking means [b]you believe what you believe [/b]not what [i]you were told to[/i].

[quote]The rest of the world, meaning everything but humans[/quote]

Why werent the people in the jungles of SA and Africa know who your god was until the Europeans? He gave us reason to believe in him, yet he did inform all of his people.

[quote] Use the gift of Reason, be FREETHINKING.[/quote]

Telling someone to be [i]freethinking[/i] contradicts the concept of freethought.

[quote]The rest of the world, meaning everything but humans, may have conditioned responses, but cannot truly think. The rest of the world cannot reason through situations and choose what is the best, rational, option.[/quote]

Then why did he create them? Why did he create them first?

This was my first blog on this site, and I thought I was typing a general explaination of my beliefs...

However, I will respond to KCahill, because tey gave pretty good answers to the other person (can't see your name on this screen, sorry).

My statement "Not only does God exist" was supposed to be explaining my stance, but I accept the irreducable complexity of the universe, the anthropic principle, the argument of first cause, the fossil record, and my daily experience as proof of a God.

Next, about God "smiting" people.
1) You saying that He smote is first accepting His existance
2) Look my responce to the blog "the evil of Yahweh" for a more complete answer to this assumption that a loving God cannot allow evil, or himself punish sinners.

Reason is not an evolutionary trait, or we would expect all life today ( which, according to evolution, has the same ability to survive) to reason. This statement by you is also based on the assumption that thought is a chemical reaction. Yes, when one thinks, brain activity can be monitored, but saying therefore that all the thought processes then occur in the brain is "post hoc ergo propter hoc," the false asumption that two related events must be in a complete cause - effect relationship.
I will accept that emotion is contained in the brain, as that emotional states can be monitored (especially the great amount of brain activity during PRAYER), but you cannot prove that thought is physical. You cannot read my mind with machines and tell me the path of my reasoning.
I view everything as a gift: life, family, friends, the internet, common and specific grace, redemption, the ability to exist, and yes, to the other guy, the ability to move my arm.

[quote] Freethinking means [b]you believe what you believe [/b]not what [i]you were told to.[/i] [/quote]
Well this is fun. I was not told what I was to believe, my parents have shown me through their example and lifestyle that they know the truth. I have came to my beliefs the only way possible: by examining the world and making my own choice. If I circularly "believe what I believe" then I need not debate with you, and you should accept me for who I am without asking me to proove my statements.
Your definition of "Freethinking" is useless and leads one to the desire to curl up and die.
There must always be bounds, and "Freethinking" must be done within the bounds of reason, or it is simply delusion.
(By the way, arguing with me undermines your definition of freethought"

[quote] Then why did he create them? Why did he create them first?[/quote]
He created them for His Glory, and because He wanted to. However, I would like you to explain to me why only humans reason, why they seem to have this unique [b]GIFT.[/b]

[quote]Well this is fun. I was not told what I was to believe, my parents have shown me through their example and lifestyle that they know the truth. I have came to my beliefs the only way possible: by examining the world and making my own choice. [/quote]

If your parents didnt tell you of God you wouldnt believe in him. You wouldnt know of his extitence. Just some fairy tales from your friends.

[quote]If I circularly "believe what I believe" then I need not debate with you, and you should accept me for who I am without asking me to proove my statements.[/quote]

You come to a site (mostly atheists) tell us God is real, and expect not to prove his extence?

[quote]There must always be bounds, and "Freethinking" must be done within the bounds of reason, or it is simply delusion.
(By the way, arguing with me undermines your definition of freethought"[/quote]

[b]Freethinker[/b]-is a philosophical viewpoint that holds that beliefs should be formed on the basis of [b]science and logical principles[/b] and not be comprised by [i]authority, tradition, or any other dogma[/i]. The cognitive application of freethought is known as freethinking, and practitioners of freethought are known as freethinkers.

I thought to be a [url=http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freethinking]freethinker[/url] you'd be atheist.

[quote]He created them for His Glory, and because He wanted to. However, I would like you to explain to me why only humans reason, why they seem to have this unique GIFT[/quote]

Chippanizees can do sign lanuage, Id count that as somewhat a little reason.

Hey, I didn't say that my parents didn't tell me of God, I just said that their actions, rather than their words carried the evidence that proved it to me.

Would you believe there was not a God if no one told you there wasn't?

My parents have not brainwashed me; they are not to blame for what I believe. Only I am to blame, only my desire to know the truth and the fact that I have not yet been disproven when it comes to these matters.

[quote][quote]If I circularly "believe what I believe" then I need not debate with you, and you should accept me for who I am without asking me to proove my statements.[/quote]

You come to a site (mostly atheists) tell us God is real, and expect not to prove his extence?[/quote]
Please read before you respond.
I put an "If" there for a reason. You said I should "believe what I believe" this is circular and without base, and therefore you would be unable to argue with me, for I would simply say "That's what I believe, because I believe it."

I did not say that this was any sort of proof, but rather that if you meant what you said there would be no reason to argue.
Arguing with me undermines this definition you gave in your first post.

I clarified that Freethought must be done within the laws of reason (aka "logical principles"), which you seem to agree with your last post. Why should a Freethinker, according to your latest definition, be an atheist? The world (studied through science) shows signs of a creator, and no fossil signs of the necessary "transitions" in evolution.

[quote]Chippanizees can do sign lanuage, Id count that as somewhat a little reason.[/quote]
I wouldn't. They were trained to do so. This is a conditioned response.
My dog goes and rings a bell to go outside, does he think? Does he reason? No! His bladder is telling his brain that something has to be done, and his brain is remembering that the last time that bell rang the door opened. Conditioning, not reason.

My computer can do algebra, calculus, and differential equations. It however, cannot think, and never will be able to.

Both of you guys should read this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3014747.stm

[quote]I wouldn't. They were trained to do so. This is a conditioned response.[/quote]

Is a deaf person using sign lanuage a conditioned responser?

[quote]Why should a Freethinker, according to your latest definition, be an atheist? [/quote]

It kinda says it in the defintion "[i]and not be comprised by authority, tradition, or any other dogma[/i]." notice the word "and" its not an "or".

[quote]Hey, I didn't say that my parents didn't tell me of God, I just said that their actions, rather than their words carried the evidence that proved it to me.[/quote]

Like making you go to church every Sunday? Or CCD?

[quote]
Would you believe there was not a God if no one told you there wasn't?[/quote] Yea I guess so, since I wouldnt know what one is.

Yes it is true God does exist and he wants a relationship with whoevers reading this. I have a kind of Saul to Paul conversion in that I used to be the biggest brain dead stoner before finding Jesus and as soon as I commited my life to him my motiviation has completely changed! I read everyday and actually have a future! This change of me wanting to live my life to me wanting to be completely unselfish is rendered impossible by any arguement other than an existance of a God. I would not compare having a relationship with him a crutch, I would concider it a healing.

You became a better person with movitation not from Jesus but [b]yourself[/b]. I never saw Jesus go to AA or NA meetings for anyone, [b]they did[/b]. You can do anything if you try, God didnt help me get in TOPS, I did.

And we're all v. proud of you for doing so. However, something I should point out, is that if you look at the argument at hand from the perspective that God does not and cannot exist without proof, then you will never be convinced. The premise of Christianity is faith and belief. John 3:16 says "whoever BELIEVES in [Christ] will not perish but have eternal life." Does it say, whoever clearly evaluates the proof? No. God isn't going to hand you an essay full of reasons to prove to you he exists. To presume he should is something along the lines of sheer arrogance. And what does it matter, really, at the end of the day, who 'wins' this arguement? If you're right, and there is no God, and whatever it is you think happens after death happens, then that's what happens. And if the Bible is right, then you will have a wonderful eternity in pain and torment going over in your mind all the opportunities you had to believe but didn't.

What's TOPS, btw? I dont think we have that in Australia...

[quote]What's TOPS, btw? I dont think we have that in Australia...[/quote]

TOPS is a program in Louisiana to help for tution. Im sure some program exists in Australia.

[quote] God isn't going to hand you an essay full of reasons to prove to you he exists[/quote] Yea he should not at all show he exists.

[quote]
The premise of Christianity is faith and belief.[/quote] Can I beieve in the Flying Spaggetti Monster? How can you proove he doesnt exists.

[quote]And if the Bible is right, then you will have a wonderful eternity in pain and torment going over in your mind all the opportunities you had to believe but didn't.[/quote] Are you beileving in a God so youd dont? :) Looks like your joining me!

now thats a good lad,
very few christians out their are willing to look deeper into their beleifs. if your stance on christianity is strong, and your appears to be, then looking into other people interpritations and belief systems will help you gain a better knolege of what you personaly beleive in strengthening your faith, or your eyes will be opened to something diffrent.

one thing i hate most about most christians is that when asked why they belive in god the just say "because hes big and awsome", this offers no reason to their thinking and if they had not been told that the easter bunny wasent real then they would probably say the same thing about him

i salute u for not being ignorent and instead developing your way of thinking to benifit your belief system