[quote]First of all, one guy did a great job of pointing out that it is, in fact, illegal to have people swearing on the Bible in court because that violates the separation of church and state which is the very first right on the bill of rights ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion", and the fact that most of our founding fathers were secular)[/quote]
This is not only a blatant misunderstanding of the Constitution, but also a distortion of the truth.

Having someone swear in the Bible in court is not an "establishment of religion." The government of the United States is not saying, "Everyone must follow Christianity" by doing this. You've gotta keep in mind that this is what the clause really means, and it was created to protect religion, not the government.

Two, it's not true that "most" of our Founding Fathers were secular. "Most" of them were deists and Christians. Deism isn't really secular.

[quote]First of all, I don't actually know of any Christians who believe the Bible. Please tell me if you do. I would like to hear about them.[/quote]
*raises hand*

Of course, if by "believe the Bible" you mean "interpret every word hyperliterally," then that doesn't apply to me either.

[quote]I am aware that they are in prison, but I would still find it neat to learn about them.[/quote]
When one runs out of real arguments to make, they merely comment on how many more Christians there are in prison than atheists. In turn, I comment on how many more Christians there are than atheists in the entire world, and then the statistic means nothing.

[quote]The other problem is where to draw the line. There are literally hundreds of holy scriptures. If I go to court, I swear to God (had to) that I will ask to swear on a winnie the pooh coloring book. I will point out that the coloring book is a nice, loving book with many lessons and morals that I believe in.[/quote]
So basically, you want the Bible to make you feel all warm and cuddly on the inside when you read it?

quote]I will then point out that the God tells people to kill people who don't share there beliefs in the Bible.(Deuteronomy 13:6-11 and elsewhere) among other morals that are truly horrifying.[/quote]
Yawn.

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/lawrole.html

[quote]So, fellow freethinkers, let us push for Winnie the Pooh coloring books to be allowed in court to be sworn on to show how rediculous swearing on the Bible (or Al Qu'ran for that matter) is truly ludicrous.[/quote]
Yawn again.

[quote=P-Dunn][quote]First of all, one guy did a great job of pointing out that it is, in fact, illegal to have people swearing on the Bible in court because that violates the separation of church and state which is the very first right on the bill of rights ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion", and the fact that most of our founding fathers were secular)[/quote]

This is not only a blatant misunderstanding of the Constitution, but also a distortion of the truth.

Having someone swear in the Bible in court is not an "establishment of religion."

[b]Duh! It is "[i]respecting[/i] and establishment of religion" though. Try reading the Constitution or arguing against what [i]I [/i]write and not what you, yourself, write.[/b]

The government of the United States is not saying, "Everyone must follow Christianity" by doing this. You've gotta keep in mind that this is what the clause really means, and it was created to protect religion, not the government.

[b]Everything you'll ever read about Thomas Jefferson will tell you that the clause was meant to protect the Government-- not religion. They saw the evils that religion did. What is with Christians and not taking history classes? In fact, I was just reading in a history text book today about the founding fathers establishing that clause to protect the government from relgion. Look it up. I guarantee you will see the light.[/b]

Two, it's not true that "most" of our Founding Fathers were secular. "Most" of them were deists and Christians. Deism isn't really secular...

[b]Secular means nonreligious and Deism is not a religion. Many of the founding fathers were Deists, as I allowed, as many of them were atheists. [/b]

[quote]First of all, I don't actually know of any Christians who believe the Bible. Please tell me if you do. I would like to hear about them.[/quote]
*raises hand*

Of course, if by "believe the Bible" you mean "interpret every word hyperliterally," then that doesn't apply to me either.

[b]If you don't take the Bible literally, then you'll be joining me in Hell. God said to not add or take away from what He said. Also, you're writing to me. That's not very Christian. You should be killing me if you believe the Bible. It says so in Deuteronomy 13:6-11. And somewhere in Deuteronomy you'll find the do not add or take away quote. Besides, how could you base your life on something so unsure? I base my life on science because it is based on facts and facts are a good base.[/b]

[quote]I am aware that they are in prison, but I would still find it neat to learn about them.[/quote]

When one runs out of real arguments to make, they merely comment on how many more Christians there are in prison than atheists. In turn, I comment on how many more Christians there are than atheists in the entire world, and then the statistic means nothing.

[b]What? I was referring to Christians killing their children because of the Bible. Try reading it. Besides, Japan is the safest country and it is over 90% atheist so if you want to talk about meaningless statistics, you went to the wrong guy.[/b]

[quote]The other problem is where to draw the line. There are literally hundreds of holy scriptures. If I go to court, I swear to God (had to) that I will ask to swear on a winnie the pooh coloring book. I will point out that the coloring book is a nice, loving book with many lessons and morals that I believe in.[/quote]

So basically, you want the Bible to make you feel all warm and cuddly on the inside when you read it?

[b]What's wrong with that? Isn't it supposed to be a good book where you become a better person for reading it?[/b]

[quote]I will then point out that the God tells people to kill people who don't share there beliefs in the Bible.(Deuteronomy 13:6-11 and elsewhere) among other morals that are truly horrifying.[/quote]
Yawn.
[b]I, too, found the Bible a bit dull, but seeing as you base your life on it, I would think you would respect it a bit. [/b]
http://www.tektonics.org/lp/lawrole.html

[quote]So, fellow freethinkers, let us push for Winnie the Pooh coloring books to be allowed in court to be sworn on to show how rediculous swearing on the Bible (or Al Qu'ran for that matter) is truly ludicrous.[/quote]
Yawn again.[/quote]
[b]Don't even bother reading this if you're just going to yawn. I guess that explains why you never read the Bible. If freethinkers offend you, why bother coming to our website? This is the part where I tell you to grow up and you reply with some childish comeback like..."yawn".[/b]

[quote=P-Dunn][quote]First of all, one guy did a great job of pointing out that it is, in fact, illegal to have people swearing on the Bible in court because that violates the separation of church and state which is the very first right on the bill of rights ("Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion", and the fact that most of our founding fathers were secular)[/quote]
This is not only a blatant misunderstanding of the Constitution, but also a distortion of the truth.

Having someone swear in the Bible in court is not an "establishment of religion." The government of the United States is not saying, "Everyone must follow Christianity" by doing this. You've gotta keep in mind that this is what the clause really means, and it was created to protect religion, not the government.

Two, it's not true that "most" of our Founding Fathers were secular. "Most" of them were deists and Christians. Deism isn't really secular.

[quote]First of all, I don't actually know of any Christians who believe the Bible. Please tell me if you do. I would like to hear about them.[/quote]
*raises hand*

Of course, if by "believe the Bible" you mean "interpret every word hyperliterally," then that doesn't apply to me either.

[quote]I am aware that they are in prison, but I would still find it neat to learn about them.[/quote]
When one runs out of real arguments to make, they merely comment on how many more Christians there are in prison than atheists. In turn, I comment on how many more Christians there are than atheists in the entire world, and then the statistic means nothing.

[quote]The other problem is where to draw the line. There are literally hundreds of holy scriptures. If I go to court, I swear to God (had to) that I will ask to swear on a winnie the pooh coloring book. I will point out that the coloring book is a nice, loving book with many lessons and morals that I believe in.[/quote]
So basically, you want the Bible to make you feel all warm and cuddly on the inside when you read it?

quote]I will then point out that the God tells people to kill people who don't share there beliefs in the Bible.(Deuteronomy 13:6-11 and elsewhere) among other morals that are truly horrifying.[/quote]
Yawn.

http://www.tektonics.org/lp/lawrole.html

[quote]So, fellow freethinkers, let us push for Winnie the Pooh coloring books to be allowed in court to be sworn on to show how rediculous swearing on the Bible (or Al Qu'ran for that matter) is truly ludicrous.[/quote]
Yawn again.[/quote]

Christians are more prevalent in prison even taking into account their relative percentage of the population.

That being said, it's a meaningless statistic, as the poor are less likely to be less educated and more religious, and also more likely to commit crime. It doesn't mean religion causes crime. Although to be fair, few atheists withhold medicine from their kids on moral grounds, bomb abortion clinics etc...religion causes certain types of 'moral' crimes. I'd guess that accounts for the discrepancy betwene population representation and prison representation.

I was actually referring to how the Bible tells you to kill your chidren if they disrespect you, kill non-believers, kill anyone who participates in premaritial sex, and all the other things the Bible tells you to kill for. If you believe the Bible, you should do those things therefore you will likely (hopefully) go to prison.