Well it has nothing to do with this site at all but I am gonna be having a baby!

Die Einzelperson Definert Alles!
(The Individual Defines All!)

Fantasic. But, why post it on... a poll about God? We have a General Conversation forum, you know.

www.myspace.com/nickpoling

Being an anti-theist I can't conclude that it is stupid and contradictory to think a god under the definition of a being who's powers or attributes are not understood by current scientific knowledge could never exist. That agreement is as imaginative as arguing on the side of a theistic God.

No, it's not. Not if you don't change the definition of God.

god (gŏd)
n.
1. A. A being conceived as the perfect, omnipotent, omniscient originator and ruler of the universe, the principal object of faith and worship in monotheistic religions.
B. The force, effect, or a manifestation or aspect of this being.
2. A being of supernatural powers or attributes, believed in and worshiped by a people, especially a male deity thought to control some part of nature or reality.

Your definition, "a being who's powers or attributes are not understood by current scientific knowledge," changes the defintion of God. I'm talking about GOD God. You know. Religious God. Not just a "being who isn't understood" or "the force that started the universe" or any of that crap. I'm talking dictionary defintion GOD. The original idea of God.

www.myspace.com/nickpoling

If somebody just asks whether a god can exist, I must admit the possibility (under the above's definition 2), despite the ridiculousness of it, but such a slim 'chance' has absolutely no bearing on the subject.

If they picked a specific god, with listed qualities (something along the lines of defintion 1), then I could assuredly put down that there he/she absolutely doesn't exist. Because there was no specification, I had to go with the other choice.

The number 2 definition is also impossible. Everything in the universe is created by nature. If it exists, it's natural. There is no such thing as the supernatural.

There is no God, as far as the english language is concerned. Like I said, unless you change the definition, there's no argument there.

www.myspace.com/nickpoling

Good point -- I overlooked the fact that supernaturalism doesn't exist when reading the definition - missed the impossibility. But then again, all 'god' claims fall under the supernatural, so in rejecting the concept of supernaturalism, all gods automatically go out the window. The hard part is proving to someone that the supernatural doesn't exist, because if such a thing exists, it would be imperceptible to us (thus unable to communicate with us, either).

Lmao, stupid theists.

another, perhaps more opinion based thought, reason why God cannot exsist is that, under the dictionary definition, he is perfect. if that is true, there would not be so many hypocrisies in the bible. one of the ten commandments states that "thou shalt not kill" when more people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason. simply looking at the crusuades, the middle east, 9/11, and iraq, and you'll soon find out how big of a problem religion has with killing.

and something one of my other friends brought up, is that when asking a theist the origins of the universe, they will say God created everything. but when asked about the origins of God, they will say he's been there forever, and he is a self exsisting being.....MY ASS!!! why cant the universe be self exsisting? hmmm? simply put, most theist have been indoctored by their parents, relatives, and teachers to believe something so incredibly ignorant and stupid, that by the time they are able to think logically by themselves, they already feel so strongly for their religion that it blinds them to the obvious truth. and when they cant explain something, they say God works in mysterious ways. ha, what a scheißty way out of looking like a total retard.

I live in Georgia and before I moved here I had no problem with god. But as soon as I moved to the south I had people telling me that I was going to hell for not beliving in god. I had one girl follow me around every day trying to convert me, convinced that she was doing good. This did not work as they wanted it to but instead put me off god due to their stupidity. It does not bother me if they try and explan their belifes to me and I often am the one asking why they believe as they do but it annoys me when I am told that I will burn for eternity just because I am not Christian.

God was tossed down my throat since the age of three. I read the Bible wan't impressed at all and when Bush got into power, I just knew. No God. no way

God was tossed down my throat since the age of three. I read the Bible wan't impressed at all and when Bush got into power, I just knew. No God. no way

The world is flat?

Daniel 4:10

Thats the problem with Christianity, it is based on people fearing their god. What kind of loving god would want people to fear him/her?
When Christians say that tell them to go fuck off, that is what I would say, they deserve it for telling you crap like that and being so ignorant to science and known facts. It really pisses me off, and I feel really bad for a friend I had last year in grade 8 who randomly started to believe in god half way thought the school year. I think it had to do with his parents splitting up, but still this kid was the most logical and critical thinker I knew, I thought he was the smartest kid until I found out just how much he believed, some one really brain-washed him.

[quote]Thats the problem with Christianity, it is based on people fearing their god. What kind of loving god would want people to fear him/her?[/quote]

Do you understand what it means to 'fear God'?

Terror

...I think it probable that an intelligent and creative first cause/prime mover force exists.
Is it engendered, human-like-human-centered, a sky-parent,etc? Obviously not.
Can we label it with the conventional human word{like any othet human made word}- "God"? Sure, why not? But that's JUST A HUMAN MADE WORD!

In reason:
Icono

[quote]The world is flat?

Daniel 4:10[/quote]

Daniel 4:10 "These are the visions I saw while lying in my bed: I looked, and there before me stood a tree in the middle of the land. Its height was enormous." The world is flat? You be the judge.

He meant Daniel 4:11.

Still the ends of the earth is just an expression.

[quote]He meant Daniel 4:11.[/quote]

Thks Amercian Atheist :) I forgot the verse its been awhile.

The entire Bible is an experession. Thats why you should not take it seriously.

Actually it is an expression. An expression of the nature and will of God. And that's why we should follow it.

Like when he said "eye for an eye"?

Ha ha, That's a fairly uneducated claim. Where did you get that? You'll notice Matthew 5:38-42 states the EXACT OPPOSITE:

"You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth. 'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if someone wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to borrow from you."

You should stop making claims without research.

If you want to play the qoute game, okay then. He whats God says:

[i]The entire population of the earth at the time of Noah, except for eight survivors, in a flood. "And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark." Gen. 7:23[/i]

[i]Every inhabitant of Sodom and Gomorrah, and of the surrounding plain, by "brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven." Gen. 19:24 Lot's family fled.

All the first-born of every family in Egypt, including children of those in the dungeons and the successor to the throne of Egypt's Pharaoh, by God on the first Passover night. Ex. 12:29

All the hosts of Pharaoh, including the captains of 600 chariots, who drown in the Red Sea while pursuing the Israelites. ". . . and the Lord overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea." Ex. 14:27,28[/i]

[i]Rulers of Israel, 11 in number, who refused to invade the Promised Land after they had spied on it for 40 days. God kills them with a plague. Num. 14:37[/i]

Here some claims from your loving God.

Bu..bu..but..but those people deserved it, KCahill!

Yea, but Gods all loving, but he's jealous and angry at the same time.

[quote]If you want to play the qoute game, okay then. He whats God says:

The entire population of the earth at the time of Noah, except for eight survivors, in a flood. "And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark." Gen. 7:23

Every inhabitant of Sodom and Gomorrah, and of the surrounding plain, by "brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven." Gen. 19:24 Lot's family fled.

All the first-born of every family in Egypt, including children of those in the dungeons and the successor to the throne of Egypt's Pharaoh, by God on the first Passover night. Ex. 12:29

All the hosts of Pharaoh, including the captains of 600 chariots, who drown in the Red Sea while pursuing the Israelites. ". . . and the Lord overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea." Ex. 14:27,28

Rulers of Israel, 11 in number, who refused to invade the Promised Land after they had spied on it for 40 days. God kills them with a plague. Num. 14:37

Here some claims from your loving God.[/quote]

Aren't these verses a bit off topic from what you and tey were originally talking about? Guess you have nothing to say about an eye for an eye.

[quote]Aren't these verses a bit off topic from what you and tey were originally talking about? Guess you have nothing to say about an eye for an eye.[/quote]

You didnt get the point all you did was copy and paste. READ CLOSLEY. Let me explain one:

The Jews were the slaves to Egpt so God:
"All the first-born of every family in Egypt, including children of those in the dungeons and the successor to the throne of Egypt's Pharaoh, by God on the first Passover night."

God killied the first born just like when the Egptians killied the sons in the begining. Doesnt that sould like eye for an eye?

[quote]You didnt get the point all you did was copy and paste. READ CLOSLEY. Let me explain one:

The Jews were the slaves to Egpt so God:
"All the first-born of every family in Egypt, including children of those in the dungeons and the successor to the throne of Egypt's Pharaoh, by God on the first Passover night."

God killied the first born just like when the Egptians killied the sons in the begining. Doesnt that sould like eye for an eye?[/quote]

That is extremely farfetched. To me, that does not sound like an eye for an eye at all. Egyptians killed baby boys, God killed firstborn. Plus, this was the last of the plagues, so it was really Pharoah who condemned the Egyptian firstborn by not letting the Israelites go.

Hmm. Killing baby boys in return to killing first born boys. Thats pretty close to eye for an eye.

No ... the killing of the firstborn was part of a series of plagues God brought upon Egypt to convince Pharoah to let the Israelites be free. It was not an act of revenge or an "eye for an eye."

There's no point agruing. Then why did God curse the plages on the Egptains?

Because Pharoah would not let the Israelites go.

Why didnt God just make the Pharoah hand over the Jews? He can do anything he could make him just change his mind.

He did make Pharoah hand over the Jews. He did change Pharoah's mind. He proved his power.

[quote]He did make Pharoah hand over the Jews. He did change Pharoah's mind. He proved his power.[/quote]

Guess he didn't give us freewill then.

[quote=noor]Guess he didn't give us freewill then.[/quote]

ROTFL!

[quote]He did make Pharoah hand over the Jews. He did change Pharoah's mind. He proved his power.[/quote]

1. Thanks Noor. You took the words out of my mouth. :)
2. Anyway, why did he have to send plauges and kill innocent people? Isnt God all loving?

[quote]Guess he didn't give us freewill then.[/quote]

I never said he used mind control or anything like that. He used the plagues, as I have stated above. Pharoah's freewill is what got him into the situation in the first place.

[quote]Anyway, why did he have to send plauges and kill innocent people? Isnt God all loving?[/quote]

When did he ever kill innocent people? All people sin against him and are therefore condemned to death. It is true that God is a God of love, but it is also true that he is a God of judgement.

[quote=logos]I never said he used mind control or anything like that. [/quote]

Yes, you did:

[quote=logos]He did change Pharoah's mind.[/quote]

[quote]When did he ever kill innocent people? [/quote]
I dont know, maybe the young baby boys...

[quote]All people sin against him and are therefore condemned to death.[/quote]
Hmm... Thats loving? If you made people your slaves, I kill your baby son. Tell me thats good judgement.

I was kinda torn between the 3rd and 4th choice.

[quote]Yes, you did:

[quote]logos wrote:
He did change Pharoah's mind.[/quote][/quote]

He used the plagues ... persuasion is what I meant.

[quote]I dont know, maybe the young baby boys...[/quote]

He killed firstborn. Stop saying young baby boys: it was Pharoah who did that. And I mentioned that no person is innocent.

[quote]Hmm... Thats loving? If you made people your slaves, I kill your baby son. Tell me thats good judgement.[/quote]

It's not like he went straight to killing sons. Pharoah refused God 10 times despite many warnings and previous plagues. Pharoah continued to refuse God even though all warnings and judgements Moses spoke of came true and his people were suffering. Now tell me, who had bad judgement?

Although I did vote for the last choice, I think it is worded wrong. I wouldn't call the idea of God "stupid." Yes, it is contradictory and extremely inprobable. But we should respect those who believe and not call it "stupid." .

LOL 5 voters need to do some research.

The odds of God not existing are incalculable. It is impossible for the universe and all the intelligent design to create itself. There is a massive convergence of data from every field of known knowledge in history showing evidence for God.

Teenagers don't even have the right to question this. They are unlearned and inexperienced in life. Full logical faculties do not even emerge in the human brain untill age 25.

Also, sin contaminates the mind. The more one sins, the darker their mind becomes because they expell the grace of God from their minds.

The youth of American society today are spolied rotten and totally worldly. They are slaves to the spirit of the age (the zeitgeist). They have lost touch with themselves and are so angry.

All of these facts together seriously millitate against them even knowing what they are talking about.

You don't even seem to understand what a right is. A right is something you're justified in defending with force. And I definitely have the right to think whatever I want to think.

Teenagers are unlearned, inexperienced, angry, totally worldly, spoiled? Look up ad hominem. Making generalizations about a vast group of people and then attacking them personally is pretty immature.

[quote]The odds of God not existing are incalculable. It is impossible for the universe and all the intelligent design to create itself. There is a massive convergence of data from every field of known knowledge in history showing evidence for God.[/quote]

Proove.
IGNORANCE IS POWER (again)

[quote]Teenagers don't even have the right to question this.[/quote]

So that means we dont have a right to speak freely against something?
Hm... I cant say anything but, [b]SUPIDITY[/b].

[quote] They are unlearned and inexperienced in life. Full logical faculties do not even emerge in the human brain untill age 25. [/quote]

Teens are inexperienced in life until 25?
[b]IGNORANCE[/b]. Your ideas are simply ignorant or just plain supidity.

[quote]Also, sin contaminates the mind. The more one sins, the darker their mind becomes because they expell the grace of God from their minds.[/quote]

I. Since you like to insult teens, note your gammar is off. You dont say "one sins" then say "thier mind" you would stick with "one" troughout the sentence. And its a fragment by the way. Looks like someone is "unlearned".

II. Im a solider for God in the 2nd Crusade. I killed a Muslim family "for God". Am I darker now?

[quote]The youth of American society today are spolied rotten and totally worldly. They are slaves to the spirit of the age (the zeitgeist). They have lost touch with themselves and are so angry.

All of these facts together seriously millitate against them even knowing what they are talking about.[/quote]

And they so angry because of sin? Hm.. Now I read in the [i]4 Questions [/i]book by [b]AnswersinGenesis.org [/b], they said the reason for mental births from inbreeding is not from genes but sin. Is this true?

[Quote] The odds of God not existing are incalculable. It is impossible for the universe and all the intelligent design to create itself. There is a massive convergence of data from every field of known knowledge in history showing evidence for God.[/Quote]

Please give a scientific proof, or ANY sort of proof that God not existing is incalculable. It's impossible for the universe and all the intelligent design to create itself? Really? It's more possible for a magic cloud man to make everything instantaneously than it is for the universe to be infinite, and through billions of years, life to form in it? I'd love to see ANY data of ANY field showing ANY evidence for God.

[Quote]Teenagers don't even have the right to question this. They are unlearned and inexperienced in life. Full logical faculties do not even emerge in the human brain untill age 25. [/Quote]

You! Teenager! Sit down and shut up! You cannot question ANYTHING! If I tell you God exists, you damn well better believe me! It seems like Christian Logic does not emerge in the human brain until....Ever.

This really just makes me die a little inside. I can't even begin to imagine why a teenager isn't allowed to debate something. If their points are legit, being teenagers in no way affects their points.

[Quote]Also, sin contaminates the mind. The more one sins, the darker their mind becomes because they expell the grace of God from their minds. [/Quote]

This seems incredibly off topic, since the question was of what you think of God, and you speak of Sin contaminating people?

Regardless, your version of "sin" hardly applies. With the prison systems filled mostly with Christians who accept God willingly, with Pastors getting blow jobs from kids, From People protesting Military Funerals in the name of God, all the way to people shooting abortion doctors, does it really seem like these people are expelling the grace of God from their minds to commit their sins? If anything, they are doing them in the name of God.

[Quote] The youth of American society today are spolied rotten and totally worldly. They are slaves to the spirit of the age (the zeitgeist). They have lost touch with themselves and are so angry.[/Quote]

Congratulations, you successfully just attacked every single youth in all of American society. That poor starving child on the streets is definitely both spoiled and rotten. Since your attack on everyone is obviously blatantly untrue and based on....nothing, You must be at least talking about the majority of youths, which is SLIGHTLY more acceptable, but still completely based on your opinion, and no scientific study that you have given to us.

I am not spoiled, I am not angry, and I have never lost touch with myself. I am an American Teen. BAM. Your argument is dead, almost as quickly as "Teens shouldn't have a say in things".

[quote] All these facts [/quote]
Just stop right there and realize that NOTHING you said had a single piece of factual evidence, merely opinions, faulty logic, and poor attacks upon a large group of individuals based on personal experience, generalization, and stereotyping.

their is no god there never was and never will be