Maybe it's true that some people are good just because they're afraid of divine punishment (though I doubt it). Are they really good? Of course not... they're just afraid, as a murderer or a rapist who pretends to be law-abiding in the presence of a cop. Are depressed people becoming mentally healthy by believing in God? They're still suicidal... they aren't getting any help by false threats or promises, they need therapy. As for overcoming bad situations... yes it feels good to think that your loved ones are in heaven kissing God's ass, yet when my father died about a year ago, it was more liberating to accept his demise, grieve and move on. What would the world be like without religion?

people would:

- appreciate life for what it really is, a priceless blink
- be loving and moral for the sake of it and not to gain God's favor
- be reluctant to follow orders by deluded and manipulative "God-sent" leaders
- be more tolerant of different cultures and lifestyles

We don't need religions to maintain our social structure. Take for example Europe and Japan, many people there aren't religious, yet crime rates are very lower than in USA. Pasting from http://www.humaniststudies.org/enews/index.html?id=219&article=7

"Top of the class, in both atheism and good behavior, come the Japanese. Over eighty percent accept evolution and fewer than ten percent are certain that God exists. Despite its size – over a hundred million people – Japan is one of the least crime-prone countries in the world. It also has the lowest rates of teenage pregnancy of any developed nation.

Next in line are the Norwegians, British, Germans and Dutch. At least sixty percent accept evolution as a fact and fewer than one in three are convinced that there is a deity. There is little teenage pregnancy , although the Brits, with over 40 pregnancies per 1,000 girls a year, do twice as badly as the others. Homicide rates are also low -- around 1-2 victims per 100,000 people a year.

At the other end of the scale comes America. Over 50 percent of Americans believe in God, and only 40 percent accept some form of evolution (many believe it had a helping hand from the Deity). The U.S. has the highest rate of teenage pregnancy and homicide rates are at least five times greater than in Europe and ten times higher than in Japan."

Religion as a positive influence? That's a complicated issue. Here are my thoughts on the matter:

My grandmother, a Swiss immigrant who divorced her husband after raising two sons (both of whom moved away, leaving her alone), converted to Hinduism in her old age. The general consensus in my family is that this is the most positive thing that she ever did. Now, rather than being the lost, aimless, and depressed person she once was, she has a focus in life. So I suppose one might say that for her, religion has been a good thing.

But when I went to visit her recently, and walked around the Ashram where she lives, I realized that it wasn't her religion that was keeping her together at all. It was the tight-knit group of people. It was the work and the gardens. It was the feeling of community that she gained from the experience.

Based on this experience I would argue that those who "need" religion are really after something a little simpler: acceptance. We humans are social creatures. We benefit from having a community, and organized religion is one way to find that community. Ritual began as a community-building act; there's nothing mystical about it.

So in my opinion, religion is superfluous. There is little that one can gain from attending church that can't be gained from attending any other social gathering. A priest can teach us no more than any other "parent figure". It's people who do the work of supporting others, not gods. The only difference between a church and a book club, or between a priest and a school teacher, is that book clubs and school teachers don't generally advocate the stoning of blasphemers.

The day we rid ourselves of religious institutions-- my grandmother's included-- will be the day we take our future and our society back into our own hands.

Religion helps people as a whole. It's as you said, the fellowship that accually helps them be happier.
Personally I think atheists are better people as a whole than theists, because they are not scared into being good by some fictitious being.Religion is like a parent scaring kid into doing what they think is right. And to control them.

I beleve that ateists are, percentage wise, one of the lowest minorities in the prison system.

This is because, without religion, people must think!

Btw, The humanism that you describe is a little twisted (but funny hehe)

I think that humanism is the only train of thought that gives people as much credit as they deserve. If you beleve in the supernatural... well than man's accomplishements seem dumb.

I meant that if you take how many atheists are in the country vs how many are in the prison system

and if you took the number of theists in the country vs how many are in the prison system

the athist percentage would be lower (or mabey you understood this)

(sorry... i just realized that less than 20 % could be according to populaton... not accoring to the total prison system (like.. less than 20 % of inmates are atheists... nvm...)

[quote]Because who is better at makingyou do crap than other people, considering they actually exist! [/quote]

Being a humanist because people can make you do stuff is a little twisted...

But ya, Theism is more twisted... I beleve in humanism because we are capable of things that are great.. not because i can be controlled by other humans...

No, Humanism rocks... but if your a humanist because people can make you do stuff then your reasoning is twisted.. you should be a humanist because humans rock and we have accomplished so much...

Idk, i might have misunderstood you