Apologetics please read and comment or send me email!
Loving God, when he millions of kids die everyday in Africa No way? That’s depending if you don't believe in an afterlife.
A loving God would never send someone to hell! A loving God gave you a chance to be saved. God does not send you to hell sin sends you to hell.
If there is so much evil in the world that means that there is no God. Why would a loving God create robots to serve his whim? He gave us free will. If I gave you 10 bucks than made you spend it on what I wanted to, would you really completely own the money in the first place?
Also if God wanted us to love so much than doesn't that mean that we could potentially have such a potential for great evil?
The Old Testament proves that God is evil because he ordered the death of all these people. Think about it this way, if you create something don't you have the ownership of it to destroy it? Also these pagan cultures would smash babies heads against rocks when they won battles, considering there’s a life after death (even if you don't believe bear with me) don't you think based on the age of accountance (the people who aren't old enough or mentally handicapped people who didn't know enough to believe or not) these babies would have an eternal life waiting for them and to die would mean that they wouldn't grow up to be evil and potentially go to hell.
What about the other religions? Christianity is the only belief based on hard historical evidence. The bible has proved more reliable than any other ancient document and thousands of manuscripts have been found. Also the biography of Alexander the Great was written 500 years after he was alive and only after did myth rise up (after it was written). The gospels were written only 30 years after Jesus death (or maybe even sooner) and Acts was written before that (if Acts was written after 70 A.D. than how come the persecution of the church by Nero, a huge event in Christian history was not included in a history of the early church? Also what about the death of Peter or Paul? How do you explain cowardly disciples becoming brave enough to risk death to preach a lie? How do you explain the change in someone who persecutes Christians to a person who preaches Christianity? Also how do you explain all the prophecies in the Old Testament that were fulfilled in Jesus (many which he could not fake because it involved his birth) http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/messiah.htm and all the Old Testament prophesies which told of events (such as Alexander knocking a city into a sea) years before it happened? If you don't believe that the Old Testament was written in the beginning of Ad than research the dead sea scrolls and you will find that tons of old manuscripts which date in the later ages B.C. were found in Israel.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dead_sea_scrolls
Also look at prophecies like Israel becoming a Nation (which happened in 1948) man it all leads to one conclusion. Mohammed claimed to be visited by the angel Gabriel, well than how come it choked him and made him want to kill himself after? Would an angel do that? Also the only miracle Mohammed performed was the Koran, no other. Match other religions with Christianity and you will see that only Christianity is based on historical fact. If you can't seem to get yourself to believe in a miracle such as rising from the dead than look at yourself! Life is such a miracle in itself and only because its so common we take it for granted.
These are just some apologetic questions that I've been studying I'm sorry if I come off as arrogant but I see this as a proper venue to test my apologetics on. Critics have tried there hands on the bible but have never succeeded. Watch this video for a glimpse on how much a leap of faith you are taking when denying Christ. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zidVyQe7NCo Christianity is not about being intellectually stunted (look at C.S. Lewis) in fact most scientists are coming to Christ through scientific evidence for there being a God (read sceptics search for God http://evidenceofgod.safeshopper.com/5/59.htm?842) Christianity is not about having a crutch (again look at C.S. Lewis) it is all around a relationship with Christ that will bring joy even in times of trouble, hope, and peace that passes all understanding. Will you rise above the world’s view and accept? Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. (feel free if you want to debate me to email me at [email protected] or visit my you tube at: http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Timinator15)
Some Thoughts
I am not going to discuss all of your arguments now, because I want to focus on one of them, namely the doctrine of Hell. You claim that it is not God that sends us to Hell, but our sins. However, according to your beliefs, it is God who decides what is sinful and what isn't. Therefore, although the sinner may have chosen to sin, it was God who sent him or her to Hell afterwords. This is not really the point, however. The real point is that you seem to think that this is an example of free will given to us by a just and loving God. You later tried to make an analogy. If I gave you $10, but then I told you how I wanted it spent, I wouldn't really be giving you the money. We both agree on this. Well, what if I told you, "Here's $10. You can spend it any way you want. However, I want you to spend it my way. If you don't spend the money how I want you to, that's fine. It just means that I'm going to torture you for the rest of your life. However, it is your free will to decide whether or not I will be forced to torture you."
Would you consider a person just if they said that? Would you consider them to be an example of kindness and morality to which we should all strive to conform? Probably not.
According to your beliefs, however, God, who you say makes exactly the same bargain, is the perfect model of justice.
How these two beliefs can coexist, I'm not sure. Perhaps you can explain. If so, the first thing you should do is to explain to me how the doctrine of Hell is any different from the ten dollar example from above.
That argument, while used
That argument, while used quite a bit in disproving God, is really one of the weakest arguments of all time. It amounts to saying that as that you were created by God, you are not responsible for your actions, God is.
Let me show you how dumb this position really is with a deductive logical sylogysm. I assume you believe in evolution. Evolution contends that all that was was created by purely natural means, therefore natural laws created you, therefore you are not responsible for your actions but nature is. What you have just done is shift all blame back to God to get it away from yourself.
There is a big distinction between planning on something, and creating something. Why are you so eager to blame God for something he didn't do? He planned on the world falling and sinners sinning, but why is he responsible for those actions?
IMPERFECT ANALOGY: This is a bit like Frankenstein. Is Doctor Frankenstein responsible for all that his monster does as that he was fully aware of the possibility of it corrupting? Obviously not. The monster is its own person, able to think on its own and act on its own, therefore is responsible for its own actions.
dumb times 15
Honestly, please don't come here preaching, unless you want to read my blog, stale argument.
also, christianity was based on hard historical evidence, are you serious? the only other writing of the flood was from gilgamesh, and it said the flood was only 7 days and 7 nights. also, um, how was noah 600, what about the other propehts who were older than 200? that is some good historical evidence, i would HATE to live to be 600. also, how could noah build the ark ALL by himself, being 600 and all.
the bible is the most reliable to whom? christians? it sure isn't reliable to me.
just because there are "miracles" doesn't mean that it is because of god. the moment you are born, you are in decline, your life is going one way, downward., you get older and older, and you die. way to go god, way to make our lives a downward spirial from day one.
if we die, and god created us, doesn't that mean god killed us all? why is god so powerful then? for killing all of his children.
also, last time i checked, the biography of alexander the great wasn't um, a religion. unless people are weird and worship him as a god. atleast you can prove he was real.
peter and paul, they preached it because they were promised a life after their death that was better than the one they had now, who wouldn't preach that. since it is better, why live this life so good if you could just ask for forgiveness and you are in heaven?
whatever, this is pointless, your argument is pointless and has no good points, all of which can be proved invalid.
Judaism
Islam
Christianity
EQUALS
the same thing, different words.
the same god, the same devil, the same heaven, the same hell. just different words, different myths.
what makes christianity so much better? what makes you right and them wrong? what makes us wrong and you right?
33% of america is christian, 23 percent is islam, 16 percent is atheist. the rest, i could care less about.
how about this, die, go to "heaven", come back as a ghost, tell me god is real, THEN, and ONLY then, will i believe any of your "stories" are true.
Well, to a complete
Well, to a complete determinist, you've just made a perfectly good argument.
To that determinist, actions are only useful as they make bad activities less beneficial, and less likely to be pursued, and vice versa. And organism societies wlil naturally seek those actions as they are more efficient, until they reach a point of key efficiency.
Actually, our lives do not
Actually, our lives do not spiral downwards, they go up and then back down. Er... where'd you get those numbers... the lowest numbers i've seen about Christians was about 70%
Quote: Honestly, please
[quote] Honestly, please don't come here preaching, unless you want to read my blog, stale argument.
also, christianity was based on hard historical evidence, are you serious?[/quote]
I don't know about anyone else's intentions, but I don't want to convery you. I just want to make sure for your sake that you position (atheism) cannot provide for ethical values, categories, proof of existance, and reason able to prove anything. The fact that you do just shows how much you are dependant on other worldviews to bolster your own ideas.
AgnosticAtheist1
[quote=AgnosticAtheist1]Actually, our lives do not spiral downwards, they go up and then back down. Er... where'd you get those numbers... the lowest numbers i've seen about Christians was about 70%[/quote]
that isn't true. once you are born, you don't get younger, you just older, and what happens when you get older? you die.
from day one, we are doomed to die.
life can't go up, it is impossible, if it went up, we would get younger, which would be time travel, impossible.
i dunno, i read it from some college website, i will find it and give you the link
Egann wrote:Quote: Honestly,
[quote=Egann][quote] Honestly, please don't come here preaching, unless you want to read my blog, stale argument.
also, christianity was based on hard historical evidence, are you serious?[/quote]
I don't know about anyone else's intentions, but I don't want to convery you. I just want to make sure for your sake that you position (atheism) cannot provide for ethical values, categories, proof of existance, and reason able to prove anything. The fact that you do just shows how much you are dependant on other worldviews to bolster your own ideas.[/quote]
and christianity can prove the existence of a god?
tell me how.