The Most Dangerous Myth In The World
Offline It is unsurprising that the Reverend Jim Rigby came under attack last year from conservative Christians over his decision to allow the atheist academic Robert Jensen to become a member of his Presbyterian church in Austin, Texas. These outraged conservative Christians shrieked at Rigby: [i]'How can you let someone join the church who cannot affirm the divinity of Christ? Does nothing matter to you Liberals?'[/i]
For conservative Christians, belief in Jesus's divinity should be central to one's identity as a Christian and anyone who does not embrace this belief is not a true Christian. Liberal Christians, on the other hand, suggest that instead of viewing Jesus's divinity as literally true this idea should be understood as a myth, a metaphor, a symbol, and the like. Thus, liberal and conservative Christians are located at the opposite ends of a broad spectrum of belief regarding the divinity of Jesus with lots of Christians who are undecided, confused or indifferent about the matter falling in between.
The liberal Christian position that Jesus's divinity is a myth derives from the widespread agreement among New Testament scholars that Jesus himself did not claim he was God incarnate, and that this claim was put into his mouth by the apostle Paul and the authors of the gospels. For New Testament scholars, Jesus did not regard himself as divine but only as a prophet who felt it was his mission to proclaim the end of the existing order of things and the imminent establishment of God's kingdom on earth. The fact that God's kingdom failed to materialise shows that Jesus was certainly not God incarnate. After all, if one of the alleged attributes of God is [i]omniscience[/i] then how could Jesus as God have been so [b]spectacularly wrong[/b] about the coming kingdom? For New Testament scholars, Jesus's 'divinity' should be understood as the outcome of a process of myth-making whereby Jesus the failed prophet was succesively transformed into 'Jesus the Saviour' and into 'Jesus the Messiah' by Paul and the gospel writers, and ultimately into 'Jesus the Second Person of the Trinity' by councils of bishops at Nicaea and Chalcedon several centuries later.
For liberal Christians, Christianity [i]'is not about grovelling before a saviour, it's joining in the work of saving our world'[/i] (Reverend Rigby). Thus, liberal Christians argue for the need to give up the mythical idea of Jesus as a divine being who came into this world to atone for humanity's sins, and to focus on the latter's moral teachings instead. Jesus, in other words, should be seen purely as an inspirational figure who exemplified how Christians ought to live in the world and behave towards others, and nothing beyond this. For liberal Christians, it is the emulation of Jesus as an ethical role model which should be central to Christian identity and not belief in the myth of Jesus's divinity.
The reason why Reverend Rigby wishes to shift the focus of Christian identity away from belief in the myth of Jesus's divinity, and why Jensen as a 'Christian atheist' wishes to engage critically with this myth, is because it is a myth which has been, and continues to be, both dangerously divisive and pernicious in its effects. The following are just a few reasons why this is so:
The myth that Jesus was God incarnate has been used over the last two millennia as the fundamental justification for anti-Semitism in the Christian world. Why? Because according to the New Testament the Jews did not just kill a man. No. They committed the worst crime imaginable. They killed God in the form of Jesus. Because they were held to be collectively responsible for this most awful and heinous of acts, the Jewish people have been systematically used by Christians throughout the ages as the scapegoat [i]par excellence[/i] on which they could project and discharge their accumulated feelings of guilt, inadequacy and self-loathing. As 'the murderers of Christ' no punishment has been deemed too terrible for Jews by Christians historically.
The myth that Jesus was God incarnate has given rise to conservative Christianity's posture of superiority vis-a-vis all the other world religions. Why? Because this myth entails that Christianity was [i]personally founded by God himself[/i], and therefore every other religion by implication is inferior or just plain wrong. The supercilious conceit of this position is manifested in the Christian dogma [i]Extra ecclesiam nulla salus[/i] - 'Outside the church there is no salvation'. Thus, in 1960 the Chicago Congress of World Mission could state with self-righteous arrogance: [i]'In the years since the Second World War more than one billion souls have passed into eternity and more than half of these went to the torment of hell fire without even hearing of Jesus Christ, who He was, or why He died on the cross of Calvary.'[/i]
The myth of Jesus's divinity serves as a powerful basis for the subjugation, oppression and slander of women. The myth that Jesus was God incarnate is - if you'll pardon the expression - a 'godsend' for the Christian male chauvinist as it provides him with the perfect rationalisation for his hatred and fear of women. The male chauvinist Christian blockhead 'reasons' thus: If God chose to incarnate as Jesus and not as a woman then this is proof at the 'highest level' that the male is superior to the female. As a woman writer once tersely put it: [i]'When God is male, the male is God'[/i]. Right, fellas?
I'll refrain here from describing how the myth that Jesus was God incarnate was used as an ideological device for sanctioning the oppression, exploitation and extermination of 'heathen' colonial peoples in every corner of the globe by European nations from the 16th century onwards - out of fear of making you feel sick and depressed. Suffice it to say, that the amount of conflict, horror and suffering which the myth of Jesus's divinity has directly or indirectly caused to be inflicted on the human race over the last two thousand years is beyond calculation.
The furore over Reverend Rigby's acceptance of a 'Christian atheist' into his church could only have occurred in America out of all the Western nations today. Here in Europe, for example, the doctrine of Jesus's divinity is increasingly seen as an archaic embarrassment and protestant churches are awash with Christians who no longer take it seriously. And the time has long passed when a protestant minister who openly expressed his disbelief in this 'article of faith' raised so much as an eyebrow in the media or among the general public. Indeed, the whole 'Christian atheist' thing is somewhat reversed on this side of the Atlantic. Thus, we have now reached the position in Europe that when someone says they are a conservative Christian it is generally viewed as a sign of downright bad taste on their part. For example, among those masters of social etiquette - the French - to declare oneself 'a believer in the divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ' is worse than simple bad manners: it is an outrageous act, a [i]grand faux pas[/i] as crass and unforgivable, say, as deliberately defecating oneself in a crowded elevator trapped between floors on a hot summer day.
Regards
James
[quote=Glaswegian] The fact that God's kingdom failed to materialise shows that Jesus was certainly not God incarnate. After all, if one of the alleged attributes of God is [i]omniscience[/i] then how could Jesus as God have been so [b]spectacularly wrong[/b] about the coming kingdom? [/quote]
He wasnt maybe you should look into preterism?
http://preteristsite.com/
And
http://www.tektonics.org/esch/eschatology.html
[quote]The myth that Jesus was God incarnate has been used over the last two millennia as the fundamental justification for anti-Semitism in the Christian world. Why? Because according to the New Testament the Jews did not just kill a man. No. They committed the worst crime imaginable. They killed God in the form of Jesus. Because they were held to be collectively responsible for this most awful and heinous of acts, the Jewish people have been systematically used by Christians throughout the ages as the scapegoat [i]par excellence[/i] on which they could project and discharge their accumulated feelings of guilt, inadequacy and self-loathing. As 'the murderers of Christ' no punishment has been deemed too terrible for Jews by Christians historically.[/quote]
Funny, according to my Bible it was the Romans who killed Jesus. Maybe you havet the Natzi/skinhead verision?
[quote]The myth that Jesus was God incarnate has given rise to conservative Christianity's posture of superiority vis-a-vis all the other world religions. Why? Because this myth entails that Christianity was [i]personally founded by God himself[/i], and therefore every other religion by implication is inferior or just plain wrong. [/quote]
And the same could be said for every other religion. As appealing as universilism sounds every religion makes the claim that all otheres are inferior or just plain wrong.
[quote]The supercilious conceit of this position is manifested in the Christian dogma [i]Extra ecclesiam nulla salus[/i] - 'Outside the church there is no salvation'. [/quote]
Good thing I'm not Catholic then. Eh, you do realize that is a strictly CATHOLIC dogma, and the 'church' is the CATHOLIC church?
[quote]Thus, in 1960 the Chicago Congress of World Mission could state with self-righteous arrogance: [i]'In the years since the Second World War more than one billion souls have passed into eternity and more than half of these went to the torment of hell fire without even hearing of Jesus Christ, who He was, or why He died on the cross of Calvary.'[/i][/quote]
Funny, I'm almost inclined to agree here. I hold that those who havent heard the Gospel can be saved by sincerely seeking God.
[quote]The myth of Jesus's divinity serves as a powerful basis for the subjugation, oppression and slander of women. The myth that Jesus was God incarnate is - if you'll pardon the expression - a 'godsend' for the Christian male chauvinist as it provides him with the perfect rationalisation for his hatred and fear of women. The male chauvinist Christian blockhead 'reasons' thus: If God chose to incarnate as Jesus and not as a woman then this is proof at the 'highest level' that the male is superior to the female. As a woman writer once tersely put it: [i]'When God is male, the male is God'[/i]. Right, fellas?[/quote]
You know this is the first time I've ever heard this logic before.
^ What he said.
But if Christianity is a myth, it still seems to be that the most dangerous myth in the world is Islam anyway. Christianity doesn't exactly tell you to kill the infidels all throughout it's holy book.
neither does the Quran(or anymore than the Old Testament). The hadith is scary as hell. But it's simply Mohammad's ideas on government/society, and are not claimed as divine(people just take it as thus).
But I will admit that Islam is scarier than Christianity. What matters, however, is correct or incorrect, not scary vs. non-scary. It's scary to think the world could end in a way entirely out of our control. But it's correct.
[quote=AgnosticAtheist1]neither does the Quran(or anymore than the Old Testament). The hadith is scary as hell. But it's simply Mohammad's ideas on government/society, and are not claimed as divine(people just take it as thus).[/quote]
Most Muslims, especially fundimentlist Muslims, see the hadith as a 'lense' through which to interperte the Quaran, making as much an authority on Muslim life as the Quaran.
[quote]But I will admit that Islam is scarier than Christianity. What matters, however, is correct or incorrect, not scary vs. non-scary. It's scary to think the world could end in a way entirely out of our control. But it's correct.[/quote]
Fair enough.
[quote]What matters, however, is correct or incorrect, not scary vs. non-scary.[/quote]
Very good point!
True enough. Roller Coasters are scary (the good ones, at least), and they are real.
If Jesus was nothing more than a man then this means, of course, that he was no Saviour. And therefore no personal salvation through Jesus is available to the Christian. This is why it is unbearable for many Christians even to entertain the [b][i]possibility[/i][/b] that Jesus's divinity is a myth. The Christian who has believed in this myth for years - for a whole lifetime in countless cases - has invested so much of himself in it, so much mental and emotional energy in the form of sentiments, feelings, wishes, hopes, dreams, yearnings, longings, etc. that he is under enormous psychological pressure from [i][b]within[/b][/i] to keep believing it. Can you imagine a Christian who has given so much of his being over to this myth having to admit that this was done in vain, that the sacrifice he has made of himself to it was for absolutely nothing, and that he was a complete fool for believing in it for a single moment? Such an admission would be wholly intolerable to him. Therefore, he is [i][b]compelled[/b][/i] to keep believing in the myth. Yes, better for him to keep doing that than for him to suffer the pain and personal humiliation that would result from recognising Jesus's divinity for what it is - viz. a myth manufactured centuries ago by the Church and certain Jews with a political agenda.
But there is a further reason why the Christian is driven to believe in the myth of Jesus's divinity. Christians provide this myth with monstrous new life from one generation to the next because it is rooted in something appalling which lies at the core of their being. And the appalling thing which lies there is this - [b][i]A big thumb-sucking infant who is terrified of existence and death[/i][/b], and who will cling desperately to anything for succour no matter how irrational and ludicrous that thing may be. Yes, even something as irrational and ludicrous as the myth of Jesus's divinity.
At least you responded this time.
Two points for responding. Eh, you need a little more information/proof.
[quote=Sir-Think-A-Lot]
Most Muslims, especially fundimentlist Muslims, see the hadith as a 'lense' through which to interperte the Quaran, making as much an authority on Muslim life as the Quaran.
[/quote]
I realize, was just clarifying, and I think Islam is faaar more deterimental than Christianity.
[quote=Glaswegian]If Jesus was nothing more than a man then this means, of course, that he was no Saviour. And therefore no personal salvation through Jesus is available to the Christian. This is why it is unbearable for many Christians even to entertain the [b][i]possibility[/i][/b] that Jesus's divinity is a myth. The Christian who has believed in this myth for years - for a whole lifetime in countless cases - has invested so much of himself in it, so much mental and emotional energy in the form of sentiments, feelings, wishes, hopes, dreams, yearnings, longings, etc. that he is under enormous psychological pressure from [i][b]within[/b][/i] to keep believing it. Can you imagine a Christian who has given so much of his being over to this myth having to admit that this was done in vain, that the sacrifice he has made of himself to it was for absolutely nothing, and that he was a complete fool for believing in it for a single moment? Such an admission would be wholly intolerable to him. Therefore, he is [i][b]compelled[/b][/i] to keep believing in the myth. Yes, better for him to keep doing that than for him to suffer the pain and personal humiliation that would result from recognising Jesus's divinity for what it is - viz. a myth manufactured centuries ago by the Church and certain Jews with a political agenda.
But there is a further reason why the Christian is driven to believe in the myth of Jesus's divinity. Christians provide this myth with monstrous new life from one generation to the next because it is rooted in something appalling which lies at the core of their being. And the appalling thing which lies there is this - [b][i]A big thumb-sucking infant who is terrified of existence and death[/i][/b], and who will cling desperately to anything for succour no matter how irrational and ludicrous that thing may be. Yes, even something as irrational and ludicrous as the myth of Jesus's divinity.[/quote]
Thank you Dr. Phil. I feel like this was another essay that just wasn't long enough to post by itself :) All of these are probably from some book. I checked, and he's posted the same combination of essays(even with the response to this essay)
here
http://www.ex-christian.net/index.php?s=99a634c322372cd89f449295b0afcba8&showtopic=8966
Is this enough proof that he's simply proselytizing, and has no intent of engaging in discussion?
[quote=Glaswegian]If Jesus was nothing more than a man then this means, of course, that he was no Saviour. And therefore no personal salvation through Jesus is available to the Christian. This is why it is unbearable for many Christians even to entertain the possibility that Jesus's divinity is a myth. [/quote]
1. Jesus was more than just a man.
2. Do you have any reason I should assume Jesus' divinity is a myth?
[quote]A big thumb-sucking infant who is terrified of existence and death, and who will cling desperately to anything for succour no matter how irrational and ludicrous that thing may be. Yes, even something as irrational and ludicrous as the myth of Jesus's divinity.[/quote]
That has to be about the stupidest thing I've ever heard, got a real argument or are you just going to ramble?
Terror