Christian who thinks his logic is above science.
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http://www.anointed-one.net/atheism.html
"The skeptic asks, "If God created the universe, then who created God?" God is the uncreated creator of the universe, so the question, "Who created God?" is illogical. A better question would be, "If the universe needs a cause, then why doesn't God need a cause? And if God doesn't need a cause, why should the universe need a cause?" Everything which has a beginning has a cause. The universe has a beginning; therefore, the universe has a cause. It is important to stress the words "which has a beginning". The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so he does not need a cause. Einstein's general relativity shows that time is linked to matter and space. Time itself would have begun along with matter and space at the beginning of the universe. Since God is the creator of the whole universe, he is the creator of time and is independent and outside of time. He is not limited by the time dimension he created, so he has no beginning in time." [/url]
It was my understanding that the universe has no start or end, but has always existed, just no in the form we see it today. He goes on and on.
firstly, he makes the presumption that the universe had a beginning
secondly, the idea that "whatever begins to exist has a cause" is unsubstantiated
thirdly, [i]even if[/i] the universe was caused, to say that god is the cause is another presumption
In order for god to cause the universe, he'd have to pre-exist it. In order to pre-exist the universe, he'd have to exist outside our realm of space/time/matter. The only realm we know of is that of space/time/matter. This is the only realm which is testable. All other realms are unknowable. And all things in unknowable realms are definitionally unknowable.
If you claim god created the universe, you are telling people that you know something that you can't know.
I can play games with causality too.
a never ending circle we may very well never be able to prove any thing about the start...but I know the whole god theory is kinda full of holes!
[quote=highraven]a never ending circle we may very well never be able to prove any thing about the start...but I know the whole god theory is kinda full of holes![/quote]
more than kinda
Looks like a giant ad hoc statment with a dash of asummptionalism added for flavor.
ok so its a theory full of holes...without the theory
[quote=highraven]ok so its a theory full of holes...without the theory[/quote]
hehe, so it's just a bunch of holes on their own? how does that work?
oh yeah, I forgot. a lot of theists have them inside their heads.
Any concept that has to do with a being that is beyond our comprehension is going to be flawwed and full of holes.
Makes you think....Why is it that modern science is full of unanswered questions?
How so?
Well from a Christian standpoint:
God is Truth. Man, being inherently secular from birth, is unable to grasp the absolute truth that makes up God. Thus, man is unable to provide a wholly True repesentation of God.
Not quite sure I follow... What do you mean by "man is unable to provide a wholly true representation of God"?
Man is imperfect. The concept of God as held by almost all monotheistic religions is that of a perfect being; a whole Truth, lacking nothing that would skew it into imperfection. So man, being imperfect, is unable to grasp the whole trueness of God. Therefore man can not truly represent God. Therefore religion has holes in it. If man were able to fully represent God without any flaws, it could be argued that there is no need for a God.
All I'm trying to say is to argue over holes in religion is just furthering an argument for one of the core beliefs in religion; man is imperfect.
Man is imperfect, yes, we agree on that. I simply believe man should model themselves after the character of God and strive for perfection, we can never be fully perfected because man himself is not God. What are the holes in Christianity that conflict with this?
~"He is the Rock, His works are perfect, and all His ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is He."
Deuteronomy 32:4
~"Aim for perfection... And the God of love and peace will be with you."
2 Corinthians 13:11
[quote=UltraWill]Makes you think....Why is it that modern science is full of unanswered questions?[/quote]
Because science doesn't pretend to know things it doesn't, and what it doesn't know, it simply hasn't discovered yet.
UltraWill, notice that most atheists don't claim humans are perfect. Deducing human imperfection hardly sways the debate either way.
But it does negate that an imperfect representation of God disproves the existence of God.
True. they say Humans were made in the image of god, and it appears this invisible man replicated himself without giving us the whole omnipotence thing.
The keyword is image.
It'd be entirely different if he created us out of the same substance. Then the universe would be wholly boring.
lawl I love that. He totally understands the argument for who/what created god, yet assumes his faith as truth by just a little bit of lying, by saying that God has no begining, and the universe does. NEITHER of which can be proved. Sigh.