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Definition of god (split from "Errors in the Bible")
Posted on: Mon, 2007-10-22 22:15
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Definition of god (split from "Errors in the Bible")
No probs. Meh, my position is that miracles are violations of the laws of physics, and it's a circular argument to argue that God can do them because he's God. Rational Squad Alerts |
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[quote=noor]No probs.
Meh, my position is that miracles are violations of the laws of physics, and it's a circular argument to argue that God can do them because he's God.[/quote]
Yeah, my beliefs and thoughts are really different from anyone else I've ever met but I was reading another thread that you had posted in which you talked about pantheists. I'm not sure I really believe in an actual god but if I do I would have to say I probably fit in that category. I guess I'd be a Pagan Pantheist. Cuz I believe that the earth and everything that's still natural is god (if there is one) but I don't believe that god can actually make miracles happen. I guess I consider the earth god because I see it as the giver and creator of life.
Well then going by that definition of a god - not many atheists would argue that the earth is the giver and creator of life. But when talking about a "god" I use it to mean a being. It's a semantic issue really, kinda like whether a table can be considered a chair if you sit on it.
So you're an atheist?
Strong atheist towards the creator-ruler-anthropomorphic type of God, yes.
So you do believe in god but not as a superior being?
WTF. God is a superior being - what pantheists do is attempt to distort the definition of a god so that it applies to the universe also, and call the universe a god. I am a strong atheist towards god according to just about 99.9% of all the definitions of a god. First you define what you mean by 'god' clearly and I'll tell you my stance.
[quote=noor]WTF. God is a superior being - what pantheists do is attempt to distort the definition of a god so that it applies to the universe also, and call the universe a god. I am a strong atheist towards god according to just about 99.9% of all the definitions of a god. First you define what you mean by 'god' clearly and I'll tell you my stance.[/quote]
Holy shit! I'm just tryin to figure out what you believe. God to me (if there is such a thing) is anything natural.
Ah. Well then I can't argue against 'god' if you define it as anything natural. So I guess by your standards I'd be a pantheist, but based on your posts you'd be an atheist by my standards (I define a god as a being who created and/or rules the universe.)
I'm splitting these posts since they're offtopic.
[quote=noor]No probs.
Meh, my position is that miracles are violations of the laws of physics, and it's a circular argument to argue that God can do them because he's God.[/quote]
That's interesting...but I wonder, how is that a circular argument?
If you're meaning the just the "God is god" part, that's more a confusion of terms or an "A = A" statement (I can't remember the correct term at the moment). Also, stating something has an attribute (or in this case power) does not mean there any "circular argument" going on.
For example, "Noor can drink water because he is Noor." Assuming I did proper substitution, its of the same form as your god statement above. While Noor drinking water is nowhere near that of miracles, however the same concept applies. I've just applied an attribute to Noor. Applying the same logic as above, must we assume then that Noor can not drink water?
[quote=noor]Ah. Well then I can't argue against 'god' if you define it as anything natural. So I guess by your standards I'd be a pantheist, but based on your posts you'd be an atheist by my standards (I define a god as a being who created and/or rules the universe.)
I'm splitting these posts since they're offtopic.[/quote]
But isn't Pantheism the belief that god and nature (or the earth or universe) are one in the same?
[quote=SonOfTheEverRuler]That's interesting...but I wonder, how is that a circular argument?
If you're meaning the just the "God is god" part, that's more a confusion of terms or an "A = A" statement (I can't remember the correct term at the moment). Also, stating something has an attribute (or in this case power) does not mean there any "circular argument" going on.
For example, "Noor can drink water because he is Noor." Assuming I did proper substitution, its of the same form as your god statement above. While Noor drinking water is nowhere near that of miracles, however the same concept applies. I've just applied an attribute to Noor. Applying the same logic as above, must we assume then that Noor can not drink water?[/quote]
I'm sorry, you lost me. Probably cuz I have a Missouri education and such complex thinking is on a level that I can't quite reach.
[quote=SonOfTheEverRuler]That's interesting...but I wonder, how is that a circular argument?
If you're meaning the just the "God is god" part, that's more a confusion of terms or an "A = A" statement (I can't remember the correct term at the moment). Also, stating something has an attribute (or in this case power) does not mean there any "circular argument" going on.
For example, "Noor can drink water because he is Noor." Assuming I did proper substitution, its of the same form as your god statement above. While Noor drinking water is nowhere near that of miracles, however the same concept applies. I've just applied an attribute to Noor. Applying the same logic as above, must we assume then that Noor can not drink water? [/quote]
Maybe it should have been special pleading and not circular argument. Point was, miracles are violations of the laws of physics, the laws of physics cannot be violated, and it's special pleading to argue that only God (or angels, etc.) can break the laws.
As for your example that wouldn't be special pleading because it's not like I'm saying that only I can drink water while nobody else can, without giving sufficient reasons why I'm excluded.
[quote=Wicked]But isn't Pantheism the belief that god and nature (or the earth or universe) are one in the same?[/quote]
Yes, pantheism uses a different, cut-down definition of a god and then says that god and the universe are the same. It's like me defining a knife as something sharp and then claiming that since needles are sharp too, knives and needles are the same thing.
Your pantheism defines god as a giver of life and then claims that since earth can also be defined as a giver of life, so earth and god are the same thing.
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