Continuing Debate ...
Offline And the point of locking the forum without allowing me to defend my statements was? Were you running out of steam in the argument or something? You just wanted to have the last word? Well, I guess we can just continue it here.
Continuation on the Bible's view of Women:
[quote]What's biased? That's the list. Are you going to refute it or not?[/quote]
Everything is written with a bias. I was simply saying that because you said answersingenesis.com is biased and therefore is not a valid source.
[quote]I had to lower my standards for the stupid fundy christians.[/quote]
You don't respond to the sources which you claim to be biased ... so what exactly did you lower your standards from? (I love how you result to name calling in nearly every post, shows maturity)
[quote]Ok.[/quote]
Yep.
[quote]What's pathetic? That's what the damn Bible says. If you actually read the damn Bible, you'll see that the men get married with more than one woman.
When a woman does it, she's a "whore".[/quote]
It's pathetic because that's not what the Bible says.
I every instance of polygamy that I know of in the Bible, trouble always ensues as a result of the polygamy. Like Solomon whose wives led his heart astray from God and turned him towards idolatry. Also polygamy in the Bible originates from Cain's line, the murderer's line; not the best example to follow in my opinion. (Actually Lamech, who is a murderer, is the first instance of polygamy in the Bible)
the Bible condemns polygamy:
Deut. 17:17 "Neither shall he multiply wives for himself..." (describing a good king)
Also several bible themes indicate monogamy, such as two becoming one flesh .... not more than two becoming one flesh
[quote]Have you even read her book?[/quote]
No. Have you?
[quote]And it's not obvious for the millions of women who complain that the Bible is sexist.[/quote]
Because they read the Bible with the presupposition that it is sexist.
[quote]I had a feeling that someone would bring up a violent story from the Bible. LOL![/quote]
Uhmmm, ok?
[quote]This would have a lot of meaning it the story actually happened.[/quote]
Oh, I get it. You have nothing to say? You can't just take some stories from the Bible in which bad things happen women and say it's sexist. You have to take all stories including those in which good things happen for women into account.
[quote]I think it's interesting that you're using the violent stories from the Bible to show that 'God hates men'. Good job, genius.
I guess women have to kill to please god.[/quote]
I was being sarcastic. I was saying that just because women die and are turned into pillars of salt doesn't mean that they are unequal. The same with men. And by the way, none of these stories involve God directly killing someone. And what in the world is up with the last statement? I never said anything at all that implies that. (OK! I surrender, just don't call me names anymore! :D)
[quote]And in childbirth something like 30,000 women lose their lives every year.
Oops[/quote]
How does that change the fact that the mother and child have a special bond? I guess since some people have died in childbirth that we should just stop having kids. By the way, is that statistic for the entire world or US?
[quote]Are you saying that women should through childbirth instead of going to war?
Yeesh.
There are a lot of women that want to go war and prove their courage, not to men, but to themselves.
Also, not all women want to have kids.[/quote]
Ehhh, that's a sketchy subject. No, I do not believe that women are forbade from going to war. But I believe it does have effects. It's just simple physical differences, the design of the human body. I believe that a woman being on the battlefield can affect a soldier's judgement. Also, if there is a 200 pound man down on the battlefield, who do you think is going to carry him? I don't have anything against women it's just sort of a simple truth.
I realize that not all women want to have kids, and I have no problem with it. The point of this paragraph was to state that men and women have different yet equal roles.
[quote]I guess when a man pulls out his Bible and says "so and so says you should do this" she should just stop complaining and do so?[/quote]
What? Ha, that completely has nothing to do with what I just said. What I meant was that she shouldn't complain about bad things happening to women in the Bible when they happen to everyone, not just women.
[quote]It implies, huh?[/quote]
My bad: the Bible COMMANDS husbands to love their wifes even as Christ loved the Church. Therefore, men should fashion their relationships with their wives after Christ's relationship with the Church.
[quote]Anyway, back to the list. It remains.[/quote]
Not quite.
I locked the thread so we can continue the debate when I have time to read your posts. But it seems like I have some time, after all.
I don't like certain threads that I'm participating in to get a lot of posts when I'm not around.
But if you want to debate *SHRUGS* then fine.
[quote=logos]Everything is written with a bias. I was simply saying that because you said answersingenesis.com is biased and therefore is not a valid source.[/quote]
AnwersInGenesis.com happens to have articles and "scientific facts" that have been refuted over and over.
[quote]You don't respond to the sources which you claim to be biased ... so what exactly did you lower your standards from?[/quote]
Fishdontwalk.com was a site that the biologists at the RRS forum debunked.
And anwersingenesis, they've been refuted to death by the posters at rationalresponders.com and anwersingenesis have some of the arguments Kent Hovind used.
We have videos about him, check them out when you have the time. (A LOT of free time recommended.)
http://www.rationalresponders.com/critical_analysis_of_kent_hovinds_age_of_the_earth
http://www.rationalresponders.com/critical_analysis_of_kent_hovinds_garden_of_eden
http://www.rationalresponders.com/kent_hovind_truth_in_arguments
[quote]I every instance of polygamy that I know of in the Bible, trouble always ensues as a result of the polygamy. Like Solomon whose wives led his heart astray from God and turned him towards idolatry. Also polygamy in the Bible originates from Cain's line, the murderer's line; not the best example to follow in my opinion. (Actually Lamech, who is a murderer, is the first instance of polygamy in the Bible)[/quote]
I don't think I was trying to argue that polygamy is ok in the Bible.
[quote]Also several bible themes indicate monogamy, such as two becoming one flesh .... not more than two becoming one flesh[/quote]
Reminds me of the time when we were talking about gay marriage. But we'll talk about that next time.
[quote]No. Have you?[/quote]
Yes. That's why you shouldn't say that she doesn't know what she's talking about if you haven't read it. ;o)
[quote]Because they read the Bible with the presupposition that it is sexist.[/quote]
How do you know what? Did you ask them?
[quote]Oh, I get it. You have nothing to say? You can't just take some stories from the Bible in which bad things happen women and say it's sexist. You have to take all stories including those in which good things happen for women into account.[/quote]
There's really not much to say to that. For example, I can say that God appreciates man much more and chose to have a son instead of a daughter.
[quote]I was being sarcastic. I was saying that just because women die and are turned into pillars of salt doesn't mean that they are unequal. The same with men. And by the way, none of these stories involve God directly killing someone. And what in the world is up with the last statement? I never said anything at all that implies that. (OK! I surrender, just don't call me names anymore! :D)[/quote]
Please don't be sarcastic or I'll think you're in a bad mood or something. But turning somebody's wife into a pillar of salt is really cruel. Yeesh.
Anyway, I know a few male Christians that use the Bible when talking about women and they said that the Bible says that women are the inferior sex.
I'll try to get some of them to join the message board and talk to you about this. My point is that even male Christians think that the Bible is pretty sexist. That's all I will say about that.
[quote]How does that change the fact that the mother and child have a special bond? I guess since some people have died in childbirth that we should just stop having kids. By the way, is that statistic for the entire world or US?[/quote]
You're acting like it won't change the fact that the mother and child have a special bond? But since you want the statistic, it's the entire world. And I must remind you that 30,000 women die every year in childbirth.
[quote]Ehhh, that's a sketchy subject. No, I do not believe that women are forbade from going to war. But I believe it does have effects. It's just simple physical differences, the design of the human body. I believe that a woman being on the battlefield can affect a soldier's judgement. Also, if there is a 200 pound man down on the battlefield, who do you think is going to carry him?[/quote]
I heard that they train people to pretty do whatever is necessary. I'll have to research that army stuff when I have time.
[quote]I don't have anything against women it's just sort of a simple truth.[/quote]
I don't have anything against women, too. But if they want to go to war or do something "manly", then fine.
[quote]I realize that not all women want to have kids, and I have no problem with it. The point of this paragraph was to state that men and women have different yet equal roles.[/quote]
Alright, I understand.
[quote]My bad: the Bible COMMANDS husbands to love their wifes even as Christ loved the Church. Therefore, men should fashion their relationships with their wives after Christ's relationship with the Church.[/quote]
Honestly, I wouldn't need the Bible to command me to love my wife or do anything special for her. Because that's what marriage is supposed to be about: love.
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Ephesians 5:22-24
....oh, okay :O
HAHA NO REALLY. Sounds a bit sexist to me.
LOL! :P
Thanks for finding that verse, Toxicat. ;)
By the way, about childbirth - according to [url=http://www.who.int/features/qa/12/en/index.html]World Health Organization[/url] about 529,000 women die in childbirth or pregnancy every year. Also I'm pretty sure it was worse in the past due to lack of good health care and all.
http://ffrf.org/quiz/bquiz.php
Women must keep silent. They should learn from their husbands at home. --This sexist admonition continues to be invoked by Catholics and patriarchal Protestant denominations to turn women into second-class citizens.
"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35) "I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3) "Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord." (Colossians 3:18) "Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (I Timothy 2:11-15)
As author Ruth Green put it, the "Christian family" is a "Christian fantasy." Paul's belief that "it is good for a man not to touch a woman" (I Corinthians 7:1) led to the doctrine of celibacy and other warped teachings on sexuality. Nineteenth-century feminist author Matilda Joslyn Gage pointed out that this teaching directly led to such woman-hating abuses as the witch-hunts.
"For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I." (I Corinthians 7:7-8)
Why do we not see men kissing in church, then? "Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss." (I Thessalonians 5:26. See also Romans 16:16; I Corinthians 16:20; II Corinthians 13:12; I Peter 5:14)
And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain." (Matthew 5:40-41) Are bible-believing Christians really paying double court-ordered child support? Or are they wiser than Jesus?
Now we know who is to blame.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)
The word "create" above is bara, the same word used in Genesis 1:1. The word "evil" is ra, such as in Genesis 2:9, "the tree of knowledge of good and evil." Some versions, such as the NIV, have unjustifiably softened the implications of this verse by translating ra as "disaster" or "calamity," although ra is used repeatedly throughout scripture to refer to moral evil. (See Isaiah 7:14-15: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil [ra], and choose the good.") But even if the "disaster" interpretation were allowable, the verse still depicts God as a troublemaker.
So much for omnipotence.
"And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." (Judges 1:19)
--How can the "God of light" live in darkness?
"Then spake Solomon, the Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." (I Kings 8:12. Repeated in II Chronicles 6:1) "And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies." (II Samuel 22:12) "He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies." (Psalm 18:11) "The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice . . . clouds and darkness are round about him." (Psalm 97:1-2)
What happens if a man rapes an engaged virgin in the city, and no one hears anything?
--What if she was gagged, or had laryngitis, or the neighbors were out of town? Is it fair to punish the victim of a crime, much less mete out the death penalty to a victim of violence?! The bible primitively and unfairly frames rape as a crime committed by a man against another man's property.
"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of the city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:23-24)
How many Christian women know they are breaking God's law by wearing gold wedding rings to church?"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shame-facedness and sobriety; not with broided [braided] hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array." (I Timothy 2:9) Paul was not simply giving his own personal advice here; he introduced these verses with: "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity." (I Timothy 2:7)
--In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: "Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again." (Luke 6:30, repeated in Matthew 5:42) Try asking Christians for their houses and possessions, and see how faithful they are to the teachings of Jesus. Borrow a Christian's car and see if they ever ask for it back. Modern believers know that Jesus was wrong and the bible is not to be taken literally.
Hello Dave, I've been looking for a new victim, and guess what... you're next. This happens to be a subject I debate about all the time. Let the fun begin!
[quote=Dave_G]Women must keep silent. They should learn from their husbands at home. --This sexist admonition continues to be invoked by Catholics and patriarchal Protestant denominations to turn women into second-class citizens. [/quote]
Obliviously you do not know what these strange things called 'commentaries' are. Now it's time to destroy your view on these verses below and prove you don't know what you're talking about.
[quote]"Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church." (I Corinthians 14:34-35)[/quote]
It appears to me you don't understand the situation going on eh?
Here is what Glenn Miller says:
This would mean that ALL of the instructions for worship that Paul has given in chapters 11-14 (including the passage about women praying and prophesying!) would be only to the MALES--since ALL of the instructions were about 'audible' activities (e.g. prophesy, tongues, interpretation). This would be bizarre in the extreme--bordering on the non-sensical.
This would mean that I Cor 14.26: "When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation" and I Cor 14.31: "For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged" and Col 3.16: "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom" and Eph 5.19: "Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs" would ONLY be addressed to men(!)--when there is not the slightest reason to do so, and indeed we have TONS of data that documents that women DID these things in churches (even 11.5!).
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/fem09.html
[quote] "I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God." (I Corinthians 11:3) [/quote]
You do know when you read the entire verse and the culture your argument falls apart right, let me give you a hint to follow (head in that culture does not mean the same thing it does to us). I should also tell you that a practice was happening in Corinth that Paul is addressing, know what it is?
[quote]"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord." (Colossians 3:18)[/quote]
Ignore the next verse:
Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them. (Colossians 3:18)
[quote]"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence." (I Timothy 2:11-15)[/quote]
You do know that in the ancient world, silence was not a bad thing, right? Here is a reference if you don't believe me:
The women are to "learn in silence." Despite the negative connotations this phrase brings to our ears, in the first century "silence" (hesychia) was a positive attribute. It did not necessarily entail "not speaking," as is evident in Paul's use of the word earlier in the chapter (I Tim 2.2; compare 2 Thess 3.12). Rather, it implied respect or lack of disagreement (as in Acts 11.18; 21.14). As a result, the rabbis and the early church fathers deemed quietness appropriate for rabbinical students, wise persons and even leaders."
Women in the Church: A Biblical Theology of Women in Ministry, Stanley Grenz and Denise Kjesbo, IVP:1995.
Conclusion: learning in silence was a good thing that even Rabbi's were told to do! Learn what you are talking about and stop linking to Dan Barker... he really isn't somebody to look up to.
[quote]As author Ruth Green put it, the "Christian family" is a "Christian fantasy." Paul's belief that "it is good for a man not to touch a woman" (I Corinthians 7:1) led to the doctrine of celibacy and other warped teachings on sexuality. [/quote]
My goodness, you sure read garbage don't you? You know what 1 Corth 7:1 is referring to little one? A famine! What happens when a man and women has sex? Children right, if there is a food shortage, do you think it's a good idea to have children? Besides, what is wrong with celibacy? You don't agree with it doesn't cut it, you must tell us what that is a bad thing.
[quote]Nineteenth-century feminist author Matilda Joslyn Gage pointed out that this teaching directly led to such woman-hating abuses as the witch-hunts. [/quote]
Oh yeah... 19th century garbage is so much better then modern research. How many women died according to your source by chance? Did you know that 20% of people in Europe who were killed as witches were men? Did you know about 90% of the witches killed in Iceland were men? So, if there was so much women hating going on, why were men killed as well? Me thinks you are so gullible you'll listen to whatever you want to hear.
[quote]"For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that. I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I." (I Corinthians 7:7-8) [/quote]
And the problem is that you disagree? As I told you above (but you don't wan tot read before you open your mouth). There was a famine going on! Is it a good idea to have children during that time?
[quote]Why do we not see men kissing in church, then? "Greet all the brethren with an holy kiss." (I Thessalonians 5:26. See also Romans 16:16; I Corinthians 16:20; II Corinthians 13:12; I Peter 5:14)[/quote]
Wow... what ignorance! In that culture, it was common to kiss somebody when you greeted them! Where did you get this garbage from? Brothers and sisters in that culture also kissed in public but husbands and wives didn't! How ignorant can't you get?
[quote]And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain." (Matthew 5:40-41) Are bible-believing Christians really paying double court-ordered child support? Or are they wiser than Jesus?[/quote]
Wow... reading Dan Barker eh? Here is JP Holdings response to Barker's nonssense:
Should we pay twice as much if we lose a lawsuit? Only if you are a first century Jew intending to make a point that shames your opposition. Keener [Matthew commentary, 198] notes that this verse -- "And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also." -- offers a "shockingly graphic, almost humorous, illustration of what he means by nonresistance to force his hearers to consider their values."[b] Giving away both garments would have resulted in total nudity, an "intolerable dishonor" in ancient Palestine.[/b] This act would shame the person who sued you in the first place -- Biblical law required the overnight return of a garment taken as pledge (Ex. 22:26-7) and the person taking your cloak would be quite a grinch! The verse does offer a polemic against a litigious society, but it is also no different -- actually better -- than Epictetus' comment that one should surrender one's cloak or even one's body to those who demand it, for none of these things belongs to one anyway.
http://www.tektonics.org/af/barkquiz.html#dub
See it means the exact opposite of what you say! Read next time before you go and run your mouth... it makes you look quote foolish.
[quote]Now we know who is to blame.
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." (Isaiah 45:7)
blah blah blah....[/quote]
Wrong again as JPH observes:
The word we translate "prosperity" is a familiar one: shalom. We commonly translate this word "peace" - but it is NEVER used to indicate moral goodness, the antithesis of moral evil! We must therefore translate "ra" in terms of its specified antithesis, and that is why it is thoroughly proper to give it the meaning of calamity/disaster/adversity here.
http://www.tektonics.org/gk/godevil.html
You simply have an emotional rant... but that's ok right... you're a 'free thinker'. You use 'reason' not 'emotion'.
[quote]So much for omnipotence.
"And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron." (Judges 1:19) [/quote]
Reading is very hard for you isn't it? You really should lay off from Dan Barker and start reading some real sources... Judges 1:19 is referring to Judah not God... well there goes another strawman. Too bad your next part sucks just as bad:
[quote]--How can the "God of light" live in darkness?
"Then spake Solomon, the Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." (I Kings 8:12. Repeated in II Chronicles 6:1) "And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies." (II Samuel 22:12) "He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies." (Psalm 18:11) "The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice . . . clouds and darkness are round about him." (Psalm 97:1-2)[/quote]
:sad: Oh yeah... it couldn't be that the light was too bright for humans to see clearly so God dimmed it down. Never look at the oblivious when something silly is available. See [url=http://www.tektonics.org/gk/godinlight.html]here[/url] for info.
[quote]What happens if a man rapes an engaged virgin in the city, and no one hears anything?[/quote]
Oh wow... classic argument by outrage. Time to rip you apart...
[quote]--What if she was gagged, or had laryngitis, or the neighbors were out of town? Is it fair to punish the victim of a crime, much less mete out the death penalty to a victim of violence?! The bible primitively and unfairly frames rape as a crime committed by a man against another man's property. [/quote]
More outrage, do you really think the Jews would not make exceptions if that is the case? Gosh, when you speed limit sign, do you think it should list every little exception too?
[quote]"If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of the city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife: so thou shalt put away evil from among you." (Deuteronomy 22:23-24)[/quote]
It couldn't be because purity was a valuable thing in that society eh? You do know that in neither situation does the man get off free right and if she yells out, he dies. Well... all this is argument by outrage, got something that isn't an emotional rant?
[quote]How many Christian women know they are breaking God's law by wearing gold wedding rings to church?"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shame-facedness and sobriety; not with broided [braided] hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array." (I Timothy 2:9)
Paul was not simply giving his own personal advice here; he introduced these verses with: "Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity." (I Timothy 2:7)[/quote]
Two things you are ignoring:
1. A woman doesn't have to dress to be beautiful, she is beautiful how she is.
2. This could be referring to the woman who is there to flirt with the guys and not there for the message.
All you have proven is that some are hypocrites.
BTW
1. I don't dress up for church.
2. If everyone else is dressed up as well, is it really dressing to impress or to be proper?
[quote]--In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: "Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again." (Luke 6:30, repeated in Matthew 5:42) Try asking Christians for their houses and possessions, and see how faithful they are to the teachings of Jesus. Borrow a Christian's car and see if they ever ask for it back. Modern believers know that Jesus was wrong and the bible is not to be taken literally.[/quote]
Such a gullible fool you are... for starters.. there were not police around to stop people from stealing your stuff. As such, do you think it is worth your life for a few possessions? Basically as JPH says the passage must be taken in it's ancient context:
Now perhaps you could fight back, of course; or you could go find the crook (good luck!) and either haul him to the authorities yourself, or demand your stuff back ("ask" here carries the sense of demanding; more likely you're demanding your stuff back right after it is taken); and o[b]f course you'd start a fight in the process...and that's the point, and why Luke paired this saying with the one about the personal offense of cheek-smiting -- the point here is, don't escalate the violence. [/b]And that's the way a believer would have to do it, since there was no proper way for justice to be administered -- the only authorities around didn't care or weren't likely to be much help even if they did!
http://www.tektonics.org/lp/nekkid.html
Conclusion you are little more then a child who read a few free thinker web sites and books and suddenly think you're an expert on the Bible. Got news for you... not going to win with this garbage you have above. Now have fun rebutting everything I said:
Crystal
[quote=Toxicat]Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Ephesians 5:22-24
....oh, okay :O
HAHA NO REALLY. Sounds a bit sexist to me.[/quote]
Let's just cut and paste verse together and ignore the commandment to husbands eh? Now let's look at it:
Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church— for we are members of his body. "For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh."This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband. Ephesians 5:25-33, NIV
Now tell me (when taken in context) why this is a bad thing?
And the problem is that you disagree?
No but if everyone did what Paul said the population would die out. But then again that's why Christians have murdered so many during the millenia.
Besides you don't act very "christ-like"
[b]Attention Posters:[/b] You must make every effort to be kind and courteous. No cursing, no insults, no deconstructive criticism.
[quote=American Atheist][b]Attention Posters:[/b] You must make every effort to be kind and courteous. No cursing, no insults, no deconstructive criticism. [/quote]
OK *HUGS*
^_^
[quote=Dave_G]And the problem is that you disagree? [/quote]
Awww no response. *rofl* Yep, just wave off everything I told you, that is far easier then offering a rebuttal.
[quote]No but if everyone did what Paul said the population would die out. But then again that's why Christians have murdered so many during the millenia.[/quote]
You're an idiot, you know that?
"Love your enemy, bless those who curse you."
That is advocating murder? Paul said for men and women to get married and to have children. If you would of read all of 1 corth 7 (instead of just the parts you wanted to hear) you would of found:
But since there is so much immorality, [b]each man should have his own wife, and each woman her own husband.[/b] 1 Corth 7:2, NIV
See, you're wrong! Why do you think I called you an idiot? You simply picked up a few 'contradictions' from some fundy atheist web site and pretended their were truth. Now are you going to prove me wrong or show everybody with a brain that you uncritically accept whatever you read?
[quote]Besides you don't act very "christ-like"[/quote]
So that means I shouldn't called a spade a spade? Let's see, you read things from stupid web sites, you don't give a rebuttal, And you seem to think you won something. Sorry, you lost... now tel us all why I'm wrong and you're right, ok? I happen to have biblical scholarship on my side, and you?
Crystal
I'm going to repeat this again:
[quote][b]Attention Posters:[/b] You must make every effort to be kind and courteous. No cursing, no insults, no deconstructive criticism. [/quote]
[quote=American Atheist][b]Attention Posters:[/b] You must make every effort to be kind and courteous. No cursing, no insults, no deconstructive criticism. [/quote]
So when are you going to correct him for calling Christians stupid monkeys AA? My guess is never. So when will I be banned for calling a spade a spade?
Crystal
[quote=noor]I'm going to repeat this again:[/quote]
And I'm going to ask this again:
Why is it ok for him and others to cuss out Christians and call us monkeys? So when will I see his comment edited?
Crystal
[quote=lilangelofterror]You're an idiot, you know that?[/quote]
That's one example of the insults I was referring to. There's more though.
And I don't know if you noticed this, but American Atheist told Dave_G not to use the word fuck, either.
[quote=noor]That's one example of the insults I was referring to. There's more though.[/quote]
And calling a spade a spade is a problem why?
[quote]And I don't know if you noticed this, but American Atheist told Dave_G not to use the word fuck, either.[/quote]
I read that part, but what about the monkey part? What about the cuss words and attitude I see around here all the time. Hummm... I guess it only matters if you disagree... *shrug*
Crystal
[quote=lilangelofterror][quote=noor]I'm going to repeat this again:[/quote]
And I'm going to ask this again:
Why is it ok for him and others to cuss out Christians and call us monkeys? So when will I see his comment edited?
Crystal[/quote]
Because the rules weren't that strict when he posted it. We've changed them to be a little more stringent now.
If you say so.... funny that he's able to basically call Christians murders, but that's ok... *rolls eyes*
[quote=lilangelofterror][quote=noor]That's one example of the insults I was referring to. There's more though.[/quote]
And calling a spade a spade is a problem why?[/quote]
I was referring to the idiot comment as well as many other insults. You're breaking the new rules here.
[quote][quote]And I don't know if you noticed this, but American Atheist told Dave_G not to use the word fuck, either.[/quote]
I read that part, but what about the monkey part? What about the cuss words and attitude I see around here all the time. Hummm... I guess it only matters if you disagree... *shrug*
Crystal[/quote]
We've decided to stop the cussing and insulting now. This applies to all the new posts.
I wonder why people are questioning the moderators, also.
[b]ATTENTION[/b]
The rules have been enforced because we've had new users come in, start threads and then insult people.
We will have new mods so that this forum is heavily moderated, with strict rules. Posters must make every effort to be kind and courteous. No cursing, no insults, no deconstructive criticism.
[quote=lilangelofterror]If you say so.... funny that he's able to basically call Christians murders, but that's ok... *rolls eyes*[/quote]
And we send private messages to those users with warnings.
In other words, no debating....
[quote=lilangelofterror]In other words, no debating....[/quote]
I'm too busy. As the new site admin, I have to work on some stuff for the site. Possibly give it a new look and add new features.
If Dave doesn't want to respond, then fine.
[quote]And we send private messages to those users with warnings.[/quote]
Let me just tell you AA, Dave isn't here for debate or to learn anything new. He's here to insult and make fun of Christians and as such he gets what he ask for. Sometimes being a little rough on somebody who wants to be silly and slapping him with his own ignorance is the only way to get anything accomplished. Now, before you say I don't know how it's like to be a mod. I'm one over on T-web and I know how busy it can be. On a form like this, if you start correcting every little insult... you might as well delete the entire form, because it's going to happen. On T-web we have what's known as a 'campus decorum' on our FAQ page, if you guys want the rules to be visible for others, you might want to start one yourself and make it clear what the rules are.
BTW some of your signatures can be thought of as offensive too.
[quote=noor]We've decided to stop the cussing and insulting now. This applies to all the new posts.
I wonder why people are questioning the moderators, also.[/quote]
You know noor... I am a moderator on T web and questioning mods isn't really a problem, we even have an entire board known as the boiler room for that.
[quote=lilangelofterror]Let me just tell you AA, Dave isn't here for debate or to learn anything new. He's here to insult and make fun of Christians and as such he gets what he ask for. Sometimes being a little rough on somebody who wants to be silly and slapping him with his own ignorance is the only way to get anything accomplished.[/quote]
I'll have a talk with him.
[quote]Now, before you say I don't know how it's like to be a mod. I'm one over on T-web and I know how busy it can be. On a form like this, if you start correcting every little insult... you might as well delete the entire form, because it's going to happen. On T-web we have what's known as a 'campus decorum' on our FAQ page, if you guys want the rules to be visible for others, you might want to start one yourself and make it clear what the rules are.[/quote]
Indeed.
[quote]BTW some of your signatures can be thought of as offensive too.[/quote]
Some of our beliefs are too.
Also, I'm going to leave this thread open and see how things turn out.
[quote=American Atheist]I'll have a talk with him.[/quote]
It might or might not work.
[quote]Some of our beliefs are too.
[/quote]
So should you simply edit out beliefs? No, I'll grantee in a form like this, you may have alot of insults flying around. My advice would be to make certain things modable offensives.
Crystal
[quote=lilangelofterror]So should you simply edit out beliefs? No, I'll grantee in a form like this, you may have alot of insults flying around. My advice would be to make certain things modable offensives.
Crystal[/quote]
Crystal, I understand. Also, I would like to add that we've had new people join this site, and lately, they happen to be really young.
Some of the new people are 12 years old. So, we want this forum to be heavily moderated. The mods will be discussing what will be considered as offensive.
Anyway, I want to stop talking about this issue on this thread.
If anybody has any questions, send me a message.
-Mike.
I'll refrain from cussing, but I don't "crystal" will follow her scriptures, maybe she should watch this:
http://www.livingwaters.com/listenwatch2.shtml
How many of the fruits of the "true convert" do you posses?
{I happen to have biblical scholarship on my side, and you?}
By the way can I please point something out?:
1.freethinking TEENS.com
2. Jesus didn't have a biblical scholarship either what's your point? If I have a biblical scholarship I'm a Christian? OK...
{ Why do you think I called you an idiot? } Because your a Christian in rebellion? Didn't Christ teach to bless those who persecute you?
So instead of getting a scholarship read the Bible and mabbey watch the link above.
[quote=Dave_G]By the way can I please point something out?:[/quote]
sure.
[quote]Jesus didn't have a biblical scholarship either what's your point? [/quote]
Yea he did, there were rabbis and teachers that studied the Torah.
And her point is that people who study these things for a living happen to agree with her. Doesnt it seem odd that the only people who support your positions are laymen and a few fringe historians who are laughed at by mainstream academia?
[quote]If I have a biblical scholarship I'm a Christian? OK...[/quote]
Not necessarly although you'll be in a better position to understand what the Bible teaches.
[quote]Because your a Christian in rebellion? Didn't Christ teach to bless those who persecute you?[/quote]
Yes, but your hardly persecuting us. Did you happen to look at how Jesus treated people who acted stupid and unwilling to learn(like the pharasisies)?
[quote=Dave_G]How many of the fruits of the "true convert" do you posses?[/quote]
That's all you have Dave? So somehow in your little world this guy is teaching absolute truth? It's rather quite simple, you are a teen who is mad at God because he doesn't fix your cell phone. Your arguments are lame at come from such sources as Dan Barker, who went from a fundy Christian who is willing to believe whatever he hears to a fundy atheist who is willing to believe whatever he hears. Conclusion? You are a way I amuse myself. The fact you can't refute me and search the internet for a book and some video's that really prove nothing your saying speaks volumes. Are you going to refute my argument against you now or do I have to wait forever?
Crystal
[quote=Dave_G]
By the way can I please point something out?[/quote]
This should be amusing... no real argument below or refutation of my argument against his copy and paste out of context verses he posted above. But hey, why would Dave answer something he can't or admit he's wrong? Red herrings work so much better.
[quote]1.freethinking TEENS.com[/quote]
And? your point is?
[quote]2. Jesus didn't have a biblical scholarship either what's your point? If I have a biblical scholarship I'm a Christian? OK...[/quote]
1. Jesus was also the son of God and know more about what he was saying then you or me.
2. Jews of that time did learn scholarship from the Rabbi's.
Wow... there goes another argument down the tubes... so sad :sad:
[quote]Because your a Christian in rebellion? Didn't Christ teach to bless those who persecute you?[/quote]
:lol: So you have magic mind reading powers you know my subconscious thoughts? Amazing! Please, I don't hate you at all, in fact the fact you throwing up these Red Herrings and not answer my argument against your case speaks volumes. Slapping you around with your own ignorance is exactly the things Jesus did when the situation called for it and the situation calls for it now. I know you're not interested in rather or not Christianity is true, you just want to rant, too bad I'm not going to lay down and let you post these gross errors in thinking and logic.
[quote]So instead of getting a scholarship read the Bible and mabbey watch the link above.[/quote]
So in other words, let's watch another person who doesn't read Biblical Scholarship and takes verses out of their cultural context. Now here is the Translation: "I can not answer your argument against my copy and paste Dan Barker quotes, so I'll throw up these red herrings." Keep digging that hole deeper and deeper.
Crystal
FYI Jesus was not always nice to people either... he called hypocrites, hypocrites and liars, liars. So pointing out that you uncritically accept everything you hear is an issue why? We both know you have no answer, may your red herrings serve you well. :wink:
[quote=lilangelofterror][quote=Dave_G]How many of the fruits of the "true convert" do you posses?[/quote]
That's all you have Dave? So somehow in your little world this guy is teaching absolute truth? It's rather quite simple, you are a teen who is mad at God because he doesn't fix your cell phone. Your arguments are lame at come from such sources as Dan Barker, who went from a fundy Christian who is willing to believe whatever he hears to a fundy atheist who is willing to believe whatever he hears. Conclusion? You are a way I amuse myself. The fact you can't refute me and search the internet for a book and some video's that really prove nothing your saying speaks volumes. Are you going to refute my argument against you now or do I have to wait forever?
Crystal[/quote]
Mabey we will be cell mates in Hell since if the Bible is true you are obviously going there with me since you hate Jesus so much. You believe everything you hear on christian-thanktank. I doubt you even have a real scholership. See you in Hell.
[quote=lilangelofterror][quote=Dave_G]How many of the fruits of the "true convert" do you posses?[/quote]
That's all you have Dave? So somehow in your little world this guy is teaching absolute truth? It's rather quite simple, you are a teen who is mad at God because he doesn't fix your cell phone. Your arguments are lame at come from such sources as Dan Barker, who went from a fundy Christian who is willing to believe whatever he hears to a fundy atheist who is willing to believe whatever he hears. Conclusion? You are a way I amuse myself. The fact you can't refute me and search the internet for a book and some video's that really prove nothing your saying speaks volumes. Are you going to refute my argument against you now or do I have to wait forever?
Crystal[/quote]
Mabey we will be cell mates in Hell since if the Bible is true you are obviously going there with me since you hate Jesus so much. You believe everything you hear on christian-thanktank. I doubt you even have a real scholership. See you in Hell.
___________________________________________________
1. Jesus was also the son of God and know more about what he was saying then you or me.
___________________________________________________
LOL!!! He actually thought he was coming back before the apostles died I'd hardly call that God. And did you know he wasn't even sinless? He sinned when he cleared the temple.
___________________________________________________
2. Jews of that time did learn scholarship from the Rabbi's.
Wow... there goes another argument down the tubes... so sad
___________________________________________________
If I had a Koran scholarship would you care? No because your a slave to your ignorance, that's why you stay on a site for teens instead of going to the RRS site. Coward, its because you know you can't debate some atheists your own age? Sad.
___________________________________________________
So you have magic mind reading powers you know my subconscious thoughts? _________________________________________________-_
Yeah your sinless your better than God in fact, at least you don't want to send me to the gas chamber.
___________________________________________________
Amazing! Please, I don't hate you at all, in fact the fact you throwing up these Red Herrings and not answer my argument against your case speaks volumes.
___________________________________________________
And the fact that your to scared to go to the RRS site proves that your a coward. And besides you have no logic no credentials, you just copy and paste things from that christian-thank-tank site.
___________________________________________________
Slapping you around with your own ignorance is exactly the things Jesus did when the situation called for it and the situation calls for it now.
___________________________________________________
OK give me an example when Jesus threw out insults and refused to turn the other cheek.
___________________________________________________
know you're not interested in rather or not Christianity is true, you just want to rant, too bad I'm not going to lay down and let you post these gross errors in thinking and logic.
___________________________________________________
I used to be a true convert and then I started to think for myself and now I know the difference between fact and fiction. And I hope that one day you will to.
+__________________________________________________
So in other words, let's watch another person who doesn't read Biblical Scholarship and takes verses out of their cultural context. Now here is the Translation: "I can not answer your argument against my copy and paste Dan Barker quotes, so I'll throw up these red herrings." Keep digging that hole deeper and deeper
___________________________________________________
God:2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
You: I don't want to I hate you!!!!!
And besides you think your so sinless I'm just as good (if not better) especially you. You judge others and in the same manner you also will be judged. And Biblical scholarship is more important than salvation, tell me something I don't know. I already know salvation is pointless, now check your inbox I sent you a good site to force mythology on.
[quote=Dave_G]Mabey we will be cell mates in Hell since if the Bible is true you are obviously going there with me since you hate Jesus so much. You believe everything you hear on christian-thanktank. I doubt you even have a real scholership. See you in Hell.[/quote]
Wow Davey has magical mind reading powers and he knows for a fact that I 'hate Jesus'. He still has no answers for anything I said and has to resort to red herrings to attempt to make a point. What's the problem, can't answer me? *rofl* You're a joke Davey...
Crystal
BTW I don't hate you at all, I call a spade a spade and prove it and I have proven you are wrong, but you are too full of pride to admit it. It's ok, we both know you have no answers to my rebuttal.
[quote=Dave_G]_
LOL!!! He actually thought he was coming back before the apostles died I'd hardly call that God. And did you know he wasn't even sinless? He sinned when he cleared the temple.[/quote]
Again Davey shows us all that he doesn't know what he's talking and I will prove him wrong again.
1. Ever hear of Orthodox Preterist Aka Partial Preterist? It seems you don't because if you have you wouldn't make such gross errors about basic Eschatology when it comes to the Return of Christ. I'm not a rapture theorist, so you'll need a new card on this one.
2. How did Jesus sin by clearing out the temple? If you bothered to do an entire 10 minutes of research you would of learned something. They were not suppose to be selling things or having animals in the temple court yard! Now tell us why clearing out the temple was sinful... Opps, there goes another argument down the tubes.
Stop uncritically accepting anything you hear and go read the Bible and some good scholarship already.
[quote]If I had a Koran scholarship would you care?[/quote]
Ladies and Gentlemen we have another red herring! We are not talking the Koran are we? No, we are talking about the Bible and as such what does this have to do with anything?
[quote]No because your a slave to your ignorance, that's why you stay on a site for teens instead of going to the RRS site.[/quote]
*rofl: Actually little one, I come here for entertainment to watch you make a fool of yourself. Rook and company on the Irrational responders are a joke, just like yourself. In fact you are more then welcome to come to theologyweb.com. Here is my latest post to the historical evidence to Jesus:
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showpost.php?p=1944332&postcount=121
BTW, your hero's didn't even last a day on T-web and they refuse to debate JP Holding... hummm... I wonder why...
[quote]Coward, its because you know you can't debate some atheists your own age? Sad.[/quote]
Wrong again, this isn't the only site I go to, you're just a side show. On theologyweb I debate atheist more then twice my age. In fact Carpedm9587 who I'm debating with now is almost 50 and I'm only 22, I handle myself against him just fine. I'm only 7 year older then you and if I can take on people with college degrees in biology or history, what is your excuse? I'm here to show you that you are not as smart as you seem to think you are. Lay off the Dan Barker and the RRS and pick up something by Ben Witherington or even atheist like Peter Kirby.
[quote]Yeah your sinless your better than God in fact, at least you don't want to send me to the gas chamber.[/quote]
*rofl* Again we have a red herring with no evidence to back it up. If you want to show us all that you're a child who can't back up what he says with evidence (IE calling me a 'coward' even though I debate atheist on theologyweb more then twice my age). Now, are you going to back up your latest statement with evidence or do you prefer to throw up red herrings like no tomorrow?
[quote]And the fact that your to scared to go to the RRS site proves that your a coward. And besides you have no logic no credentials, you just copy and paste things from that christian-thank-tank site.[/quote]
1. The RRS is too chicken to come to T-web to take us on. Last time they did that, they didn't even last a day. I debate atheist more then twice my age and have earned alot of respect from atheist and Christian alike, and you?
2. No I do not have credentials, thus I use people who do (something you and the RSS doesn't use). If you are writing a history paper, do you go ask your friend for help or do you grab a history book?
3. I don't use logic eh? Go look up fallacyfiles.org and prove what I've said about your red herrings and strawman are wrong. Ever read anything by Plato by chance?
4. Why don't you or the RRS go and prove Glenn Miller as wrong?
My conclusion, you are saying, 'Don't do what I do, do what I say.' I'm only about 6 or 7 years older then you and I can hold my own against atheist more then twice my age. BTW, why are you allowed to copy and paste things from Dan Barker, but you cry when I copy references from Glenn Miller?
[quote]OK give me an example when Jesus threw out insults and refused to turn the other cheek.[/quote]
1. You still don't know what Jesus met by cheek turning? He isn't talking about laying down and being a door mat, I already proved to you (but you just keep your fingers in your ears while going, "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!") In a honor/shame society offering your other cheek isn't being a doormat, it's about honor. Offering your other cheek and if your opponent slaps you again, he has just dishonored himself before the community. See, the Bible was not written last week to you personally, it was written 2,000 years ago to another culture and as such, should be understood from their viewpoint.
2. Jesus called people hypocrites (Matthew 7:5), vipers (Matthew 12:24) and even pigs (Matthew 7:6). As such, I can call you somebody who uncritically accepts whatever he hears.
You should really stop uncritically accepting whatever you want to hear and start paying attention to what I'm telling you. Your hero's over on RRS are just a joke who talk about things they don't understand. They don't use real references that prove the wrong, they warped the facts or make up standards on the spot.
[quote]I used to be a true convert and then I started to think for myself[/quote]
In other words you went from gullible Christian willing to accept whatever you hears to gullible atheist willing to accept whatever you hear.
[quote]...and now I know the difference between fact and fiction.[/quote]
Oh yeah... keep it up... you are really doing a great job of making a fool of yourself. You are welcome to jump in on my debate on the historical evidence for Jesus or on miracles I linked to you above anytime you wish. Shoot, go get Rook or one of them to try.
[quote]And I hope that one day you will to.[/quote]
I'm still waiting for you to show that 'rational thought' you keep talking about. So far I'm seeing a kid that went from gullible Christian willing to accept whatever he heard to gullible atheist willing to accept whatever he heard.
[quote]God:2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?[/quote]
Another red herring. So again I sit back and wait for you to give a real rebuttal to what I said, but just for amusement, I'll bite.
So you have magical mind reading powers you know everything I do? That is truly amazing! Did you know that I'm a big sister for the Big Brothers and Sisters org? I've also done community service projects such as cleaning up roads and Habit for Humanity. I also give quite a bit in money or food to charities. What do you to help others? Sorry, but I'm calling a spade a spade and proving it, are you mad that you can't prove me wrong? Is that the reason your throwing up red herrings left and right? Are you trying to distract me from your obsessive ranting? You have failed, try this again...
[quote]You: I don't want to I hate you!!!!![/quote]
Yep, more and more red herrings... I don't hate you, I call a spade a spade and prove it. Do you use this same line when you fail a test to your teacher? Your teacher doesn't hate you, you didn't get the right answers and earned your grade. Same goes for here, you don't know what you are talking about and as such it makes yourself look rather foolish. Why are you crying about it? Don't like the fact you're wrong?
[quote]And besides you think your so sinless I'm just as good (if not better) especially you.[/quote]
Strawman, where did I say I was sinless? Where did I say you were more sinful? If I was sinless, I wouldn't need Jesus, but I am. However; unlike yourself I'm able to admit my short comings and come to the conclusion that I need more. Thus I look to Him in my daily life. Calling you out and showing you that you are not as rational and good at this as you think is exactly what Jesus would of done. I don't hate you at all, so stop trying to say I do. I'm just calling a spade a spade and proving it.
[quote]You judge others and in the same manner you also will be judged.[/quote]
I don't uncritically accept whatever I hear, you do... there lies the differences.
[quote] And Biblical scholarship is more important than salvation, tell me something I don't know.[/quote]
Wow, you sure love strawman and red herrings eh? Where did I say Scholarship was more important then salvation?
[quote]I already know salvation is pointless, now check your inbox I sent you a good site to force mythology on.
[/quote]
Sorry, I don't go to the RRS nonsense. You are welcome to join myself on Theologyweb.com and prove me wrong. One of the atheist I'm debating with right now is a whole lot better at debating then you or anyone at RRS is. In fact, I dare you to come join us. So far you have shown us all that you don't know what you are talking about, live in your delusions Davey, may they serve you well!
Crystal
[quote=Dave_G]LOL!!! He actually thought he was coming back before the apostles died I'd hardly call that God. [/quote]
And he did. I direct you again to the concept of preterism:
http://www.preteristsite.com/
[quote]And did you know he wasn't even sinless? He sinned when he cleared the temple.[/quote]
He did? Explain please.
[quote]If I had a Koran scholarship would you care? No.[/quote]
It depends, are we discussing the Koran? No.
[quote]because your a slave to your ignorance[/quote]
Lets see here, I correct you every other post, and I'm a slave to ignorance?
[quote]Yeah your sinless your better than God in fact, at least you don't want to send me to the gas chamber.[/quote]
God wants to send you to gas chamber? Where'd you get this nonsense from?
_[quote]OK give me an example when Jesus threw out insults and refused to turn the other cheek.[/quote]
Matthew 23:17:
[quote]"Blind fools![/quote]
There are more, but you only asked for one example.
[quote]I used to be a true convert and then I started to think for myself and now I know the difference between fact and fiction. And I hope that one day you will to.[/quote]
I used to be a true athiest and the I started to think for myself and now I know the difference between a real argument and an assumption. And I hope one day you will to.
[quote]And besides you think your so sinless I'm just as good (if not better) especially you.[/quote]
I dont recall anybody here saying they were sinless or better than you. More informed maybe, but thats not really hard.
[quote]And Biblical scholarship is more important than salvation[/quote]
No, its important to help us understand our salvation.
Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
It's Christians like you that make people want to stay away from the Bible and please go to the RRS website if you arnt afraid.
Here I found a good site for you, I'm sure even you can understand it:
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/appendixd.html
And here's the site you are to afraid to go to:http://www.rationalresponders.com/
Because they have professional atheists. And sense I know you by your fruits... considering your rude, arrogant, self righteous, Great at showing christian love, act like your better than everyone else, and refuse to follow the clear teaching to examine yourself. So unless you want to be rational and not just throw out insults and pray that I don't get saved (because really looking at your life i'm glad i left the cult.) then don't reply.
I know your to afraid to debate people on the RRS site because you wouldn't come out alive.
Here debate rook (if your not scared) :
[email protected]
Lets see here, I correct you every other post, and I'm a slave to ignorance?
___________________________________________________
I was talking to miss sinless. Personally I don't really have a problem with you.
___________________________________________________
God wants to send you to gas chamber? Where'd you get this nonsense from?
__________________________________________________
See verses on Hell.
___________________________________________________
I dont recall anybody here saying they were sinless or better than you. More informed maybe, but that's not really hard.
___________________________________________________
More informed on the Bible but the Bible is foolishness to me, it even admits it in black and white:(1Co 2:14)
-___________________________________________________
Matthew 23:17:
___________________________________________________
Hm.. It seems every time Jesus does it it is to the religious leaders and scribes. Do we have any scribes here? Well we have a self righteous hypocrite (who claims to have a scholarship)
So I guess he would be adressing her.
___________________________________________________
No, its important to help us understand our salvation.
___________________________________________________
Or makes us come to teen sites and throw out insults like little children.
[quote=Dave_G]Matthew 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
It's Christians like you that make people want to stay away from the Bible and please go to the RRS website if you arnt afraid. [/quote]
Sorry, I got tougher debaters on Theologyweb.com. Does that mean since you are not going to be joining me on the historical evidence for Jesus you're a coward? I'll open the thread for you on the basketball court so that only you and I can comment. Going to take my challenge now?
[quote]Here I found a good site for you, I'm sure even you can understand it:
http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/appendixd.html[/quote]
You sure pick the stupidest of websites huh? Let's look at the first paragraph, shall we?
[quote]History. It's inconceivable that during the alleged time of Jesus no one bothered to write down anything about this most extraordinary person, yet we have nothing.[/quote]
Of course, this must mean that Alexander and Hannibal don't exist either, because after all... we only have a few sources about them from 300 years after their death. Argument from silence is a poor argument.
[quote] Even the earliest Bible reference to Jesus dates to at least A.D. 64, and the first Gospel, the Gospel of Mark, dates to at least A.D. 70 (and probably to A.D. 170).[/quote]
Ummm no... Paul wrote in the 40 to 50 AD, in fact even non Christians like Peter Kirby of earlychristianwritings.com agrees to that. Thus your web site is junk. Got something else?
[quote]And here's the site you are to afraid to go to:http://www.rationalresponders.com/[/quote]
:) Sorry, your friends are more then welcome to join us here or on T-web. I'll take Rook on in Theologyweb.com on the basketball court on the existence of Jesus. Your hero's have refused once to debate us there, will they refuse again?
[quote]Because they have professional atheists.[/quote]
Just ignore the fact that none of their sources are historians...look at the articles your first source pulls from:
[quote]Robert Taylor (1829) Demonstration That No Such Person As Jesus Christ Ever Existed[/quote]
Yep, 200 year old research is good enough for you. ;) Why do we need historians with these strange degree things when we have you?
[quote] And sense I know you by your fruits... considering your rude, arrogant, self righteous, Great at showing christian love, act like your better than everyone else, and refuse to follow the clear teaching to examine yourself.[/quote]
So in other words... you don't like the fact that we point you are wrong and prove it. Speak of rudeness, arrogance, and self righteousness... why did you call Christians monkeys? Because you are a little hypocrite who cries when somebody sinks his arguments?
[quote] So unless you want to be rational and not just throw out insults and pray that I don't get saved (because really looking at your life i'm glad i left the cult.) then don't reply.[/quote]
Funny, I not only threw out insults (which are correct, you do uncritically accept anything you hear that agrees with you) I also gave evidence. What's the problem... don't like how my answers prove you wrong? Let's see you debate JP Holding on T-web about the existence of Jesus (your hero's have refused to do it, are they chicken)?
[quote]I know your to afraid to debate people on the RRS site because you wouldn't come out alive.[/quote]
*rofl* And I know you're too chicken to appear on theologyweb to take us on on the historical evidence of Jesus. Does Rook want to take on JPH on theologyweb?
[quote]Here debate rook (if your not scared) :[/quote]
We've already invited him to T web and he turned it down. Make you a deal, invite him and see if he takes our challenge.
Crystal
Reading 2 scentances doesn't cut it explain the fact that Jesus is based on earlier religions. Go to RRS or don't reply to this.
"I come here for victims"
Yeah is that why Jesus came to earth? Come to RRS there are plenty of users who would take you on, and im sure u could get some people to come to your little site.
I'll even join but I don't anyone there would come to RRS. But ill join your little site if you join RRS.
[quote=Dave_G]Reading 2 scentances doesn't cut it explain the fact that Jesus is based on earlier religions.[/quote]
*rofl* so in other words, Davey doesn't want to do his research and he'd rather listen to what the RRS tells him! You're a joke Davey...
[quote]Go to RRS or don't reply to this.[/quote]
They are more then welcome to come here or go to Theologyweb.com and prove me wrong. Rook and company have come here before and they can come here again.
[quote]"I come here for victims"
Yeah is that why Jesus came to earth?[/quote]
We both know you're not interested in finding out if Christianity is true, so please stop pretending. *rolls eyes*
[quote]Come to RRS there are plenty of users who would take you on, and im sure u could get some people to come to your little site.[/quote]
Theologyweb is a little site? Funny... we've been around for 4 years now and have currently: 12,695 members and some high profile atheist have come though. Including John Loftus and Farell Till. The RRS has already been challanged to come to debate us on T-web. So, what does RRS have? Why do you refuse to come to T web? What is your RRS groups response to our challenge? Does this mean your chicken?
[quote]I'll even join but I don't anyone there would come to RRS. But ill join your little site if you join RRS.[/quote]
Funny... I thought this web site was ran by RRS, sorry don't have the paitences to deal with the amount of stupidity RRS has... perhaps you guys can all come to T-web then. :wink:
Crystal
[quote=Dave_G]Reading 2 scentances doesn't cut it explain the fact that Jesus is based on earlier religions. [/quote]
He wasnt. One bald assertion deserves another.