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christians are hypocrits
Posted on: Sun, 2006-12-10 23:27
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christians are hypocrits
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[quote]Ya, but it goes above and beyond condemnation
Ok, Pagan rituals ... does it really excuse murder?[/quote]
Ok to begin with capital punishment=/=murder. It really irks me when people try to equate the two.
Secondly Sunflash has already answered you on this. I'd also add that since the purpose of Torah was to establish a nation that would follow God's commands, its only reasonable to have punishments in place for those who break God's moral commands.
Can I go ahead and call bullshit? Why would a benevolent God enforce unjust laws?
Heres a better question: What makes you think the command againts sex rituals is unjust?
[quote]Ok to begin with capital punishment=/=murder. It really irks me when people try to equate the two.[/quote]
I do not support capital punishment - even for murder. God is immoral when he commands killing for things like working on the sabbath and being disobediant to parents.
(not to mention pagan sex or gay sex)
[quote]I'd also add that since the purpose of Torah was to establish a nation that would follow God's commands, its only reasonable to have punishments in place for those who break God's moral commands.[/quote]
It is never reasonable to kill someone unless it is self defence. They did not have prisons back then.. so i could see kiling murderers... but adulterers are not a real threat to society... (and they were not a thret back then... civilizations existed for years without death penalties for adultury (i beleve... i could be majorly wrong on this...))
[quote]Heres a better question: What makes you think the command againts sex rituals is unjust?[/quote]
I dont think it was unjust.. pagan sex was proably icky and bad for the soul. What i have against teh whole law thing is that
1 god changed it (morality is subjective? WTF?!)
and 2 that the penalty is death.
Capital punishment is, in fact, murder. But we put up with it from the state. Just like slavery and kidnapping (prisons sometimes force people to work, to help finance the process). Just because someboy else is doing it doesn't make it different, although it can make it okay. See, the simple rule 'don't kipnap people', which I would classify as a subset of slavery, doesn't explain the situation. In this case, it is an okay option.
[quote=Guruite]
I do not support capital punishment - even for murder. God is immoral when he commands killing for things like working on the sabbath and being disobediant to parents.
(not to mention pagan sex or gay sex)[/quote]
Good for you. I do support capital punishment for murder (particularly because people who get the death penalty tend to not ever commit capital crimes again). And who are you to say God is immoral? And we already went over this. In their society, punishments had to be very, very stiff, since there was a fine line between order and chaos, and even one or two serious crimes could undermine the whole of society. Quit whining about it.
[quote]It is never reasonable to kill someone unless it is self defence. They did not have prisons back then.. so i could see kiling murderers... but adulterers are not a real threat to society... (and they were not a thret back then... civilizations existed for years without death penalties for adultury (i beleve... i could be majorly wrong on this...))[/quote]
Says you. We've been over this. These guys didn't live in nice houses with recliners, TVs and a fridge full of food, leaving punishment to the police. There were no police, there were few houses, if any, since the Israelites were a nomadic people for a long time, and there were few law enforcers. There were some judges, but that was it. Any crime was a threat to society. Fine lines. We've been over this.
[quote]I dont think it was unjust.. pagan sex was proably icky and bad for the soul. What i have against teh whole law thing is that
1 god changed it (morality is subjective? WTF?!) [/quote]
He "changed" it because there was no longer an extremely fine line between order and chaos by the NT times. Roman rule had been established, and there were soldiers to act as police. Punishments didn't need to be society enforced or super stiff anymore (though the Romans were big on death as a punishment, so they still were pretty stiff.) And even so, God didn't change what he doesn't approve of, just what the punishment is. A change in law is not a change in morality. Something can be wrong and not carry a super stiff keep-things-in-order penalty.
[quote]and 2 that the penalty is death.[/quote]
Good for your opposition to the death penalty. Your preferences are totally irrelevant. As is your repeated argument by outrage.
[quote=Guruite]I do not support capital punishment - even for murder. God is immoral when he commands killing for things like working on the sabbath and being disobediant to parents.
(not to mention pagan sex or gay sex)[/quote]
Thats great but you completely missed my point(JoshHickman got it, but I still disagree with him). I wasnt advocating the death penelty, nor was I say its [b]always [/b]justified.
I was simply saying that [b]its not the same as murder[/b].
[quote]It is never reasonable to kill someone unless it is self defence. [/quote]
So you say.
[quot]They did not have prisons back then.. so i could see kiling murderers... but adulterers are not a real threat to society... (and they were not a thret back then... civilizations existed for years without death penalties for adultury (i beleve... i could be majorly wrong on this...))[/quote]
You are. The code of Hammarabi(the oldest written code of law in existence) and several other ANE codes command death for adultry(among many other things)
[quote]Heres a better question: What makes you think the command againts sex rituals is unjust?[/quote]
[quote]Capital punishment is, in fact, murder.[/quote]
[quote]JoshHickman got it, but I still disagree with him). I wasnt advocating the death penelty, nor was I say its always justified.
I was simply saying that its not the same as murder. [/quote]
I was just saying that i dotn support the death penalty... i got your point.. and i said what josh said... just less direct and with my point thrown in
[quote]So you say.
[quot]They did not have prisons back then.. so i could see kiling murderers... but adulterers are not a real threat to society... (and they were not a thret back then... civilizations existed for years without death penalties for adultury (i beleve... i could be majorly wrong on this...))
You are. The code of Hammarabi(the oldest written code of law in existence) and several other ANE codes command death for adultry(among many other things)[/quote]
Yes, I think that murder is always wrong. Period... killing in self defence is not murder (semantics... if it is defined as such then i say it is always wrong except for self defence...)
But just because the bible says so... dosent make it right... to have a system of ethics it needs to stem from logic... the bible obviously dosent. (and not just on killing... the purifying on a woman after childbirth serves no major logical purpose)
Ok, I was wrong lots of civilizations had bad laws back then.
[quote]Good for you. I do support capital punishment for murder (particularly because people who get the death penalty tend to not ever commit capital crimes again). And who are you to say God is immoral? And we already went over this. In their society, punishments had to be very, very stiff, since there was a fine line between order and chaos, and even one or two serious crimes could undermine the whole of society. .[/quote]
Sorry, god isnt immoral.. he dosent exist. The punishments in the old testiment were immoral
There was a fine line between order and chaos... well, if the order had to be forced at the point of a sharp stick... well then bring on the chaos. - If you support any revolution against oppression then you understand that order is not paramount to freedom.
[quote]Quit whining about it[/quote]
Useless killing bothers me... I guess i have compassion
[quote]Says you. We've been over this. These guys didn't live in nice houses with recliners, TVs and a fridge full of food, leaving punishment to the police. There were no police, there were few houses, if any, since the Israelites were a nomadic people for a long time, and there were few law enforcers. There were some judges, but that was it. Any crime was a threat to society. Fine lines. We've been over this[/quote]
If any crime was a threat to society then they had a lousy society. If they had a lousy society then why diddnt god change it (without making shitty laws)
He "changed" it because there was no longer an extremely fine line between order and chaos by the NT times. Roman rule had been established, and there were soldiers to act as police. Punishments didn't need to be society enforced or super stiff anymore (though the Romans were big on death as a punishment, so they still were pretty stiff.) And even so, God didn't change what he doesn't approve of, just what the punishment is. A change in law is not a change in morality. Something can be wrong and not carry a super stiff keep-things-in-order penalty.
Yes, and guess what? We, people, made this change - not god. Bad laws are bad laws, i can understand if they had to have some shitty laws back then. However, with god, anything is possiable no? So why diddnt he make it so that he wouldent have to contradict himself? Why diddnt he make it so he wouldent have to revoke some old laws? Why in the world would god have to wait for the roman empire to institute his really good laws?
[quote]Good for your opposition to the death penalty. Your preferences are totally irrelevant. As is your repeated argument by outrage.[/quote]
i was explaining why i diddnt like it... my prefrences to this explanation are what count, as i was explaining why i diddnt like the death penalty.
[quote]I was just saying that i dotn support the death penalty... i got your point.. and i said what josh said... just less direct and with my point thrown in[/quote]
In that case I disagree with you too. Capital punishemnt is state-santioned With the purpose of punishing crimes, carrying out the law and ensureing order. Murder does none of these things.
Now thats not to say capital punishment is always justified, There are cases where justice is perverted, or where the punishment doesnt fit the crime. But that still doesnt make it murder in my book(although I could understand someone disagreeing with me in these cases)
[quote]But just because the bible says so... dosent make it right... to have a system of ethics it needs to stem from logic... the bible obviously dosent. (and not just on killing... the purifying on a woman after childbirth serves no major logical purpose)[/quote]
As I recall it serves sanatary purposes. But mostly it was a sign of purity before God. Dont forget that we're talking about the lawbook for a country created to follow him.
[quote]There was a fine line between order and chaos... well, if the order had to be forced at the point of a sharp stick... well then bring on the chaos.[/quote]
Yea and allow even more killing. Great idea.
[quote]Useless killing bothers me... I guess i have compassion[/quote]
or you dont care about ensure proper punishment and the maintainence of a civilized society.
[quote]If any crime was a threat to society then they had a lousy society. If they had a lousy society then why diddnt god change it (without making shitty laws)[/quote]
Yea and while he was at it why didnt God supply them with an endless supply of lightsabers so they could whup some serious butt and not be messed with by those Philistines, and Babylonians and what not.
[quote]Yes, and guess what? We, people, made this change - not god.[/quote]
Yea and, since when is God required to do things we're perfectly capable of?
[quote]But just because the bible says so... dosent make it right... to have a system of ethics it needs to stem from logic... the bible obviously dosent. (and not just on killing... the purifying on a woman after childbirth serves no major logical purpose)[/quote]
Right, because ritual purity had [b]no[/b] bearing whatsoever on any part of daily life.
[quote]Ok, I was wrong lots of civilizations had bad laws back then. [/quote]
In your opinion. Whether or not you support capital punishment has absolutely no bearing on this discussion. We don't call God immoral because you think He is.
[quote]Sorry, god isnt immoral.. he dosent exist. The punishments in the old testiment were immoral[/quote]
So you say. I no longer care about your opinion. I am of the opinion that abortion is wrong. Does that make it so?
[quote]There was a fine line between order and chaos... well, if the order had to be forced at the point of a sharp stick... well then bring on the chaos. - If you support any revolution against oppression then you understand that order is not paramount to freedom.[/quote]
Oh yeah. Bring on the chaos. No laws, no lawgivers, just do what you want. What's mine is yours and what's yours is fair game.
[quote]Useless killing bothers me... I guess i have compassion[/quote]
Yep. Don't worry if society could tip into chaos. I mean, so what if no one's in a position of authority and you can kill anyone you want without getting into trouble? It makes no difference! I care about people who don't commit crimes. They don't deserve to die. And if there was chaos, they'd die.
[quote]If any crime was a threat to society then they had a lousy society. If they had a lousy society then why diddnt god change it (without making shitty laws)[/quote]
You know, this opinion and argument by outrage is really pissing me off. God leaves humans to their own devices for the most part. If they want to screw up their own lives, God doesn't need to step in. It's called free will.
[quote]Yes, and guess what? We, people, made this change - not god.[/quote]
Your point?
[quote]Bad laws are bad laws, i can understand if they had to have some shitty laws back then.[/quote]
Outrage....
[quote]However, with god, anything is possiable no?[/quote]
Yes...
[quote] So why diddnt he make it so that he wouldent have to contradict himself?[/quote]
What?
[quote]Why diddnt he make it so he wouldent have to revoke some old laws?[/quote]
Huh?
[quote]Why in the world would god have to wait for the roman empire to institute his really good laws?[/quote]
Hello? Earth to stupid? The Roman law was much the same. And listen. Right now. [b]YOUR OPINION HAS NO BEARING ON THE DISCUSSION. AND NEITHER DOES YOUR ARGUMENT BY OUTRAGE.[/b] I don't [b]care[/b] if you think they are bad laws.
[quote]i was explaining why i diddnt like it... my prefrences to this explanation are what count, as i was explaining why i diddnt like the death penalty.[/quote]
Yeah? And? That doesn't make it wrong. I'm not saying it again: Your personal preferences are completely irrelevent. Completely, utterly irrelevent. You will not be responded to again if you insist on arguing by outrage and personal opinion.
I wrote a long reply.. but it boiled down to a couple of things
1. Okay, I was wrong to argue by outrage
2. My opinion does matter and so does yours, this is a thread about ethics and as such... we really don't have hard facts to go on (even the facts (such as the bible) can be interpreted diffrently)
3.
[i]I will stop arguing to you on this thread if you can honestly answer the following message "yes"[/i]
Killing is cool with you when God does it to:
stop people sinning/ destroy them because of their sinns,
make someone change their mind,
or prove that someone is righteous.
(And if the stories are wrong on my part (if god never did them) then please correct me... for I beleve that the bible says that God does all of thoes things)
*If you said yes, well then, your faith has overcome and I cannot touch you with my arguments. (essentially, ill shut up here if your cool with god doing all of the stuff in the old testiment)
[quote=Guruite]I3.
[i]I will stop arguing to you on this thread if you can honestly answer the following message "yes"[/i]
Killing is cool with you when God does it to:
stop people sinning/ destroy them because of their sinns,
make someone change their mind,
or prove that someone is righteous.
(And if the stories are wrong on my part (if god never did them) then please correct me... for I beleve that the bible says that God does all of thoes things)[/quote]
No, killing is not "cool". Killing is justified when God does it because the author of life is free to end it as He wills. And most, if not all the times He killed someone in the OT, it was because they brought it on themselves. The same as a painter can destroy his own paintings and an author can kill the characters in his book, God can kill His creations. Not that He enjoys it, but He can.
When I said cool I meant permissiable or morally fine
[quote]Killing is justified when God does it because the author of life is free to end it as He wills.[/quote]
I beleve that this would constitute a yes, however
[quote] And most, if not all the times He killed someone in the OT, it was because they brought it on themselves. [/quote]
This is not the criteria that i set forth, if they had brought the killing on themselves... (even by gods standards) then fine... however
I was speaking of the innocednt children of the egyptians and the story of Job
[quote] The same as a painter can destroy his own paintings and an author can kill the characters in his book, God can kill His creations. Not that He enjoys it, but He can.[/quote]
I was not speaking of the ability to. The killing of a creation in a book or in a painting is much diffrent than the killing of an innocent human. A human can be reasoned with, a lifeless doll (of sorts) cannot.
Okay, I will rephrase the statement a little clearer
New statement:
I will stop posting on this thread in response to you (when argument.. not helpful information is the intent (i might post a scriptural verse... but i wont argue)
If you think that the best course of action for God was to let satan kill in the story of job and to personally kill the firstbornes of the egyptians.
(Because god is perfect then he obviously chose the best course of action, right?)
Okay, God can kill people. His choice. We all have this choice. But good people choose not to kill people. Generally. But God can do so. Why not? Except the 'benevolent' thing...
Hey, why do you need to have these crazy semantic rules? Murder is Bad? Really? Then you have to say, well, it doesn't include all the killing of evil guys by men in fancy hats, or self- defense. Well, of course it is bad! you took out all the good parts! Given, there are limited benefits to killing. But it isn't always bad.
[quote]men in fancy hats[/quote]
The best hats are the ones in Dr. Seuss's Novels - The rest are just a joke after The cat in the hat came around!
[quote=sunflash]
Says you. We've been over this. These guys didn't live in nice houses with recliners, TVs and a fridge full of food, leaving punishment to the police. There were no police, there were few houses, if any, since the Israelites were a nomadic people for a long time, and there were few law enforcers. There were some judges, but that was it. Any crime was a threat to society. Fine lines. We've been over this.[/quote]
That makes no sense at all. The Huns were nomadic(and thus fit most of those same qualities), and yet they made it just fine without killing people who do things they don't like. In fact, they(with some help by circumstance) toppled the Roman Empire.
[quote]He "changed" it because there was no longer an extremely fine line between order and chaos by the NT times. Roman rule had been established, and there were soldiers to act as police. Punishments didn't need to be society enforced or super stiff anymore (though the Romans were big on death as a punishment, so they still were pretty stiff.) And even so, God didn't change what he doesn't approve of, just what the punishment is. A change in law is not a change in morality. Something can be wrong and not carry a super stiff keep-things-in-order penalty.[/quote]
Actually, the Romans were faaar less strict. Same-sex relationships were, while not common, not punished. Secondly, God didn't change the punishment, he changed what the crimes were. This can be shown by the fact that not everything forbidden by the OT was forbidden by the Romans.
[quote=Sir-Think-A-Lot]
Yea and while he was at it why didnt God supply them with an endless supply of lightsabers so they could whup some serious butt and not be messed with by those Philistines, and Babylonians and what not. [/quote]
That would have been awesome.
[quote]Yea and, since when is God required to do things we're perfectly capable of? [/quote]
Well we're not, because such 'immoral actions' still happen.
[quote]Well we're not, because such 'immoral actions' still happen.[/quote]
Yea but we dont risk the collapse of our society as a result.
[quote=Sir-Think-A-Lot]Yea but we dont risk the collapse of our society as a result. [/quote]
Way to completely miss the point.
We're not completely capable of it, God would be(if he existed)
I'm not sure how the threat of hell qualifies as morality either...that is no more a moral compulsion than following laws. Morality stems from doing what's right, not avoiding punishment.
[quote]Way to completely miss the point.[/quote]
Talk about pot calling kettle black.
Allow me to recap the conversation for last page or so.
Gruite asked why God demanded death for crimes he saw as unworthy of death, and why he later changed that.
Sunflash answered that the society of the ancient Isralites risked falling into chaos by people upsetting the norm. And that without an effective way to deal with such people strong punishments were needed both as a deterrant and way of stopping people from lawbreaking permanently. And that once the Roman empire established some order such punishments became unnecessary(although they were still common because of the Roman love of blood, gore and tourturing people).
Gruite then asked why God didnt change the Isralite society.
Then I claimed that God isnt required to do anything for us. Especially if we're perfectly capable of doing so ourselves(as demonstrated by the Roman empire).
Notice that we are not discussing why immoral things happen. We're discussing why God demands spacific punishemnts for them. Thus your point that immoral things still happen is irrevelent to this conversation.
[quote]Gruite asked why God demanded death for crimes he saw as unworthy of death, and why he later changed that.[/quote]
Just to clear up, I saw the crimes as unworthy of death and God changed the law (there were two "he"s in there)
[quote]
Sunflash answered that the society of the ancient Isralites risked falling into chaos by people upsetting the norm. And that without an effective way to deal with such people strong punishments were needed both as a deterrant and way of stopping people from lawbreaking permanently. And that once the Roman empire established some order such punishments became unnecessary(although they were still common because of the Roman love of blood, gore and tourturing people).[/quote]
Good summary! :)
[quote]Gruite then asked why God didnt change the Isralite society.[/quote]
Guruite (but that dosent matter) Still good recap!
[quote]Then I claimed that God isnt required to do anything for us. Especially if we're perfectly capable of doing so ourselves(as demonstrated by the Roman empire).[/quote]
Yup! All in all I think you covered the topic well
Those were two seperate points. THe first point was that we're obviously not capable of it(like you claim)
Then I made a slightly tangent discussing how I hardly see how punishment enforces morality. This is still slightly relevant, because you talked about keeping order, however, it was not meant to directly match the topic, it was more of a random musing.
Excellent recap, but I feel ignored. :(.
:)
Josh Put in his usual helpful facts about capital punishment and god's right to kill people*
Then:
[quote]Gruite asked why God demanded death for crimes he saw as unworthy of death, and why he later changed that. Sunflash answered that the society of the ancient Isralites risked falling into chaos by people upsetting the norm. And that without an effective way to deal with such people strong punishments were needed both as a deterrant and way of stopping people from lawbreaking permanently. And that once the Roman empire established some order such punishments became unnecessary(although they were still common because of the Roman love of blood, gore and tourturing people).[/quote]
[quote=JoshHickman]Excellent recap, but I feel ignored. :(. [/quote]
Sorry, I forgot about you. I just kinda skimmed through the thread to write taht recap.
All is good. Yet aside from the recap, have we figured anything? Any preliminary conclusions as of yet?
We have learned each other's opinions and clarified our own... and I think I learned some stuff about the bible
But... no, as for a resolution of sorts... no... I really haven't changed peoples minds (or vice versa)
K, Who thinks that they should at least edit the bible again? Take out all of the rotten stuff? (ask god to make a new one?)
Already on it. Actually, I am thinking of writing my own little holy book. I see how that goes.
Will this book include god?
Course. But this is more of a mental exercise than a serious project. My mother has made it clear she won't speak to me if I take this seriously.
Haha, I made a list of 95 thesis against the mormon church (more like a list of contradictions... but still 95) last year. My mom still dosent know about it (she would proably stop talking to me if she did).
But regardless, How long would this book be? Would it contain miracles (I think you should one-up god... like make your characters be able to fly and teleport as well as cure cancer and aids)?
And would there be debates between god and satan that ended in simple name calling (assuming there is satan...)?
Oh, and I think that you need to at least transelate it into pig-latin and leet (assuming you create the book).
Oh, and if you want to start a cult you should include aliens and stuff ( :) )
I think there should be a religion that uses the writings of Dougles Adams as holy writ.
Haha, I think that that would be more sensible than killing.
I was thinking about making it serious and all. Douglas Adams doesn't quite make the cut. But if people believe in Scientology, they'll believe in anything. I hope such a radical example of Brainwashing would snap people out of it. But, you know, everybody's religion is the exception to the rule.
BTW, the rule is that when I get my friends to say I have superpowers you don't believe them. But, of course, that doesn't apply to Jesus.
Who said I wouldnt believe them? I might depending on who your 'friends' are and the nature of their claims.
Btw the Dougles Adams thing was more a joke than anything else. Although I wouldnt be surprised if somebody hasnt tried it already.
I am christian obviously but just wanted to add my comments.
First of all, alot of christians are hypocrites no lie I know because I was hypocritical time before and time again at times, humans has flaws do they not? I am not perfect, I did alot of wrong things and so has other christians and God does love us all because in the bible it says He sent his Son to die for us all so that we may not suffer eternal damnation in the lake of fire. He does not want you to go to hell but its your choice if you want to or not. He hates the evil we do but He gives us a chance to make it right again. Its like when your parents give you punishments its not because they hate you. I don't know what you guys were hearing but I don't think you heard right. The God I know is a God of love and of justice. I read another comment on the death penalty otherwise known as Captial Punishment. Well lemme ask you this if someone killed your mother and took her away from you you are telling me he does not deserve death for taking away another life? what gives him the right to live after taking a life himself?
So god and sin... ya... here is all I got to say:
God actually adopts the 'don't hate the player, hate the game' attitude. Sounds like a gangsta if I ever seen one...
Haha, I like that point (Josh)
[quote]The God I know is a God of love and of justice.[/quote]
Could you please introduce me into your god? If I could meet him then I might join your religion. (if your god is jesus then you need to look into his past... just like a reformed serial killer... you need to know all of the stuff he did before you met him.)
I would want the scum, who killed my mother, dead. - But I hope that society is above petty emotions of revenge... if it were not then
There is only one thing (that I can think of) that gives someone the right to take an unwilling life - and that is selfdefence when the stake is your life or someone else's. Killing a murderer when society can lock him up is wrong - especially when there is any margin of doubt or if the person could be useful in the future (like sadam).
Nice generalization you can't judge all christians by one website.
[quote=Dave_G]Nice generalization you can't judge all christians by one website.[/quote]
I don't think that was the point, I think nadene might've been referring to that some people claim all Christians are good and loving, which GodHatesFags disproves.
[quote=Dave_G]Nice generalization you can't judge all christians by one website.[/quote]
Wow, for once you actually said something sensible.
[quote=noor]I don't think that was the point, I think nadene might've been referring to that some people claim all Christians are good and loving, which GodHatesFags disproves.[/quote]
I wouldnt say that all Christians [b]are[/b] good and loving. Although all of them [b]should [/b]be.
Phelps, and otheres like him will get whats coming to them.
You say that we Christians are hypocrites.....Why? Those people on www.godhatesfags.com are trying to blend Old Testament Laws with New Testament explanations. Yes, Homosexuality is wrong & yes a Homosexual would have been killed in the O.T. but, we are told in the N.T. that because of Jesus' death on the Cross we no longer have to pay for the sins we do. We will eventually if we have not accepted that gift of salvation.
These Christians have gotten a false understanding of Scripture. Now, this does not make them Hypocrites but, if someone points their mistake out in the Bible & they still refuse they have become a hypocrite. They know wrong yet continue to do it. But, if it is a mistake they are doing the same as any 100 atheists can on the latest scientific discovery.
Anyway, after calling Christians hypocritical you then said that God is not love.
I have a question. Do you love children? 99% of you will. If you saw a child playing in the middle of the road & at the same time saw someone driving a Mustang full speed towards the child would you just....leave it there? NOOOOOO! Any human,(at least, any LOGICAL human) would cry out to the child & rush over & save him.
God does the same with us.
That child "sinned" against the laws of the road as well as of Physics. His "punishment" is about to hit him & it's impact will destroy him. But you with your "grace" would rush over & offer him "salvation". If he refused to listen to you & ran right back in front of the car to continue to play & did so again & again you would have to eventually give him over to his "punishment" because he will eventually get hit.
Since God loves us he hates sin & the penalty for it just as you would hate anyone being dumb enough to stand in front of a speeding car & as you would hate the car's speed because it is about to take a life. Since God loves us he must hate sin. I
f we have sin we cannot enter into Heaven which is all out perfect. That's just the way it is. God has to be strict. But, He did his best to save us & He still tries to everyday through someone or something.
That's sure looks like LOVE to me.
Praise God,
GWG
Oh, Also. Unfortunately, anyone who continues to ignore God is HATED by Him. You may think that fierce & I AGREE! Think about it, IF (& when I say if it is for all my atheist friends out there) God is what the Bible says He is it makes him:
1. The Creator
2. The Judge
3. The Savior
4. All knowing
5. All powerful
6. All seeing
7. The King
8. The Winner in the end
Now, If He is all these things think about where that leaves you.....leaves me?!? We have to be punished for our sins because of our refusal to believe.
Praise God,
GWG
How do you know for certain that your God is the real God?
Sounds to me like you are invoking Pascal's Wager as well.
My theory about why the Bible forbids homosexuality is because the natural organs of men and women are meant to go together. When 2 of the same sex use those organs wrongly it can lead to many health problems.
[quote=Dave_G]My theory about why the Bible forbids homosexuality is because the natural organs of men and women are meant to go together. When 2 of the same sex use those organs wrongly it can lead to many health problems.
[/quote]
So lesbians going down on each other is fine, because there aren't any health problems related to doing that, than would exist if it were a man and a woman doing it.
And the health problems like that? The STDs are only so prevalent because homosexuals tend to be more promiscuous, but it has nothing to do with their acts themselves. If a man and a woman were as promiscuous as a a gay male couple, STDs would be just as much of a problem.
ok, even if there were this almighty being who is god. who would be stupid enough to worship him. you tell me how this is loving i won't sugarcoat it for you. worship me or die. that's what the unconditional loving god tells his followers. why do you people not take the time to really think about this. i know its comforting and it helps you to sleep at night to believe that there's someone out there that you can count on no matter what, but its all fake. what's so wrong with getting your whiny ass up off your knees and taking responsibility for your so called sins and just be a better person doesn't that defeat the purpose it makes you feel like ooh i can murder someone and say that god told me to and its ok because he will forgive me for anything. religion is the reason the world is the cruel way that it is because christians or so-called christians think that they are above the law because they have god on their side can i call a bullshit?
The website appalls me too. These people are not Christians. The leader of the church is a self hating homosexual, and no church organization will come near these lunatics. These guys are extremist, just like the KKK and white supremacist who try to mask their hatred behind religion, they are also anti Semites and anti American by the look of their website. All of my Christian friends I talk to about this think it to be stupid and hateful.
So to paint all Christians with such a broad brush isn't really fair. That's like saying all atheist are perverts and live immoral lives. It isn't true, but some think that way.
[quote]So to paint all Christians with such a broad brush isn't really fair. That's like saying all atheist are perverts and live immoral lives. It isn't true, but some think that way.[/quote]
Excellent Answer.